vbaplsinit limits vbap to 16 speakers?

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vbaplsinit limits vbap to 16 speakers?

Marlon
Dear list,

I would like to carry out vbap - spatialization with large numbers of speakers and have a question about the vbaplsinit opcode.

in the reference it says:
" ilsnum -- number of loudspeakers. In two dimensions, the number can vary from 2 to 64. In three dimensions, the number can vary from 3 and 64. “
but then it also says:
" idir1, idir2, ..., idir32 -- directions of loudspeakers. Number of directions must be less than or equal to 16. “

Accordingly, for > 16 directions Csound throws an error (MacOS 10.11.6, Csound 6.08). What I am wondering about is the difference in max number of speakers (up to 64) vs directions (up to 16) - or differently put, is vbap spatialization limited to 16 speakers due to vbaplsinit and if yes, are there ways to overcome this?

Thank you!
Marlon
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Re: [Csnd] vbaplsinit limits vbap to 16 speakers?

jpff
Use te aay versio of vbap which is not so limited
or thezak version?

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017, Marlon wrote:

> Dear list,
>
> I would like to carry out vbap - spatialization with large numbers of
> speakers and have a question about the vbaplsinit opcode.
>
> in the reference it says:
> " ilsnum -- number of loudspeakers. In two dimensions, the number can vary
> from 2 to 64. In three dimensions, the number can vary from 3 and 64. “
> but then it also says:
> " idir1, idir2, ..., idir32 -- directions of loudspeakers. Number of
> directions must be less than or equal to 16. “
>
> Accordingly, for > 16 directions Csound throws an error (MacOS 10.11.6,
> Csound 6.08). What I am wondering about is the difference in max number of
> speakers (up to 64) vs directions (up to 16) - or differently put, is vbap
> spatialization limited to 16 speakers due to vbaplsinit and if yes, are
> there ways to overcome this?
>
> Thank you!
> Marlon
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/vbaplsinit-limits-vbap-to-16-speakers-tp5755244.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> Csound mailing list
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Re: [Csnd] vbaplsinit limits vbap to 16 speakers?

Marlon
Thanks, it seems to be a limitation of vbaplsinit rather than vbap.
See for instance the .csd example below and run with one of the two alternative vbaplsinit calls, the only difference being the number of arguments to vbaplsinit.

Cheers,
M


<CsoundSynthesizer>
<CsOptions>
</CsOptions>
<CsInstruments>

sr = 44100
nchnls = 37

; OUTCOMMENT ONE OF THE TWO VBAPLSINIT CALLS BELOW

; this one works ---
vbaplsinit   2, 16, 0.000, 10.000, 20.000, 30.000, 40.000, 50.000, 60.000, 70.000, 80.000, 90.000, 100.000, 110.000, 120.000, 130.000, 140.000, 150.000
; ----------------------
; this one doesn't ---
;vbaplsinit   2, 37, 0.000, 10.000, 20.000, 30.000, 40.000, 50.000, 60.000, 70.000, 80.000, 90.000, 100.000, 110.000, 120.000, 130.000, 140.000, 150.000, 160.000, 170.000, 180.000, 190.000, 200.000, 210.000, 220.000, 230.000, 240.000, 250.000, 260.000, -90.000, -80.000, -70.000, -60.000, -50.000, -40.000, -30.000, -20.000, -10.000, 0.000
; ----------------------

instr 1

aArr[] init 37

asound oscils 0dbfs/4, 440, 0

aArr[] vbap asound, 90, 0, 10

outc aArr[0], aArr[1], aArr[2], aArr[3], aArr[4], aArr[5], aArr[6], aArr[7], aArr[8], aArr[9], aArr[10], aArr[11], aArr[12], aArr[13], aArr[14], aArr[15], aArr[16], aArr[17], aArr[18], aArr[19], aArr[20], aArr[21], aArr[22], aArr[23], aArr[24], aArr[25], aArr[26], aArr[27], aArr[28], aArr[29], aArr[30], aArr[31], aArr[32], aArr[33], aArr[34], aArr[35], aArr[36]

endin

</CsInstruments>
<CsScore>

i1 0 1

</CsScore>
</CsoundSynthesizer>
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Re: [Csnd] vbaplsinit limits vbap to 16 speakers?

Marlon
Dear list,

I am still looking for help to find a solution for vbap spatialization in csound with > 16 speakers.
I wonder if anyone can reproduce this and if there is a reason for the limit to the number of arguments to vbaplsinit. Or is there possibly another way of doing vbap spatialization with more than 16 speakers? I would appreciate any help on this.

Thanks,
M


Marlon wrote
Thanks, it seems to be a limitation of vbaplsinit rather than vbap.
See for instance the .csd example below and run with one of the two alternative vbaplsinit calls, the only difference being the number of arguments to vbaplsinit.

Cheers,
M


<CsoundSynthesizer>
<CsOptions>
</CsOptions>
<CsInstruments>

sr = 44100
nchnls = 37

; OUTCOMMENT ONE OF THE TWO VBAPLSINIT CALLS BELOW

; this one works ---
vbaplsinit   2, 16, 0.000, 10.000, 20.000, 30.000, 40.000, 50.000, 60.000, 70.000, 80.000, 90.000, 100.000, 110.000, 120.000, 130.000, 140.000, 150.000
; ----------------------
; this one doesn't ---
;vbaplsinit   2, 37, 0.000, 10.000, 20.000, 30.000, 40.000, 50.000, 60.000, 70.000, 80.000, 90.000, 100.000, 110.000, 120.000, 130.000, 140.000, 150.000, 160.000, 170.000, 180.000, 190.000, 200.000, 210.000, 220.000, 230.000, 240.000, 250.000, 260.000, -90.000, -80.000, -70.000, -60.000, -50.000, -40.000, -30.000, -20.000, -10.000, 0.000
; ----------------------

instr 1

aArr[] init 37

asound oscils 0dbfs/4, 440, 0

aArr[] vbap asound, 90, 0, 10

outc aArr[0], aArr[1], aArr[2], aArr[3], aArr[4], aArr[5], aArr[6], aArr[7], aArr[8], aArr[9], aArr[10], aArr[11], aArr[12], aArr[13], aArr[14], aArr[15], aArr[16], aArr[17], aArr[18], aArr[19], aArr[20], aArr[21], aArr[22], aArr[23], aArr[24], aArr[25], aArr[26], aArr[27], aArr[28], aArr[29], aArr[30], aArr[31], aArr[32], aArr[33], aArr[34], aArr[35], aArr[36]

endin

</CsInstruments>
<CsScore>

i1 0 1

</CsScore>
</CsoundSynthesizer>
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Re: [Csnd] vbaplsinit limits vbap to 16 speakers?

jpff
The limit is somewhat arbitrary.  Will look at it as soon as I have finished the current score changes.

Sent from TypeApp
On 2 Apr 2017, at 00:20, Marlon <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear list, 

I am still looking for help to find a solution for vbap spatialization in
csound with > 16 speakers.
I wonder if anyone can reproduce this and if there is a reason for the limit
to the number of arguments to vbaplsinit. Or is there possibly another way
of doing vbap spatialization with more than 16 speakers? I would appreciate
any help on this.

Thanks,
M



Marlon wrote
Thanks, it seems to be a limitation of vbaplsinit rather than vbap.
See for instance the .csd example below and run with one of the two
alternative vbaplsinit calls, the only difference being the number of
arguments to vbaplsinit.

Cheers,
M

<CsoundSynthesizer>
<CsOptions>
</CsOptions>
<CsInstruments>
sr = 44100
nchnls = 37

; OUTCOMMENT ONE OF THE TWO VBAPLSINIT CALLS BELOW

; this one works ---
vbaplsinit 2, 16, 0.000, 10.000, 20.000, 30.000, 40.000, 50.000, 60.000,
70.000, 80.000, 90.000, 100.000, 110.000, 120.000, 130.000, 140.000,
150.000
; ----------------------
; this one doesn't ---
;vbaplsinit 2, 37, 0.000, 10.000, 20.000, 30.000, 40.000, 50.000,
60.000, 70.000, 80.000, 90.000, 100.000, 110.000, 120.000, 130.000,
140.000, 150.000, 160.000, 170.000, 180.000, 190.000, 200.000, 210.000,
220.000, 230.000, 240.000, 250.000, 260.000, -90.000, -80.000, -70.000,
-60.000, -50.000, -40.000, -30.000, -20.000, -10.000, 0.000
; ----------------------

instr 1

aArr[] init 37

asound oscils 0dbfs/4, 440, 0

aArr[] vbap asound, 90, 0, 10

outc aArr[0], aArr[1], aArr[2], aArr[3], aArr[4], aArr[5], aArr[6],
aArr[7], aArr[8], aArr[9], aArr[10], aArr[11], aArr[12], aArr[13],
aArr[14], aArr[15], aArr[16], aArr[17], aArr[18], aArr[19], aArr[20],
aArr[21], aArr[22], aArr[23], aArr[24], aArr[25], aArr[26], aArr[27],
aArr[28], aArr[29], aArr[30], aArr[31], aArr[32], aArr[33], aArr[34],
aArr[35], aArr[36]

endin
</CsInstruments>
<CsScore>
i1 0 1
</CsScore>
</CsoundSynthesizer>





--
View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/vbaplsinit-limits-vbap-to-16-speakers-tp5755244p5755429.html
Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [Csnd] vbaplsinit limits vbap to 16 speakers?

Marlon
that’s wonderful - thanks very much! Very appreciated :)

> On 01 Apr 2017, at 20:02, jpff [via Csound] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The limit is somewhat arbitrary.  Will look at it as soon as I have finished the current score changes.
>
> Sent from TypeApp
> On 2 Apr 2017, at 00:20, Marlon <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Dear list,
>
> I am still looking for help to find a solution for vbap spatialization in
> csound with > 16 speakers.
> I wonder if anyone can reproduce this and if there is a reason for the limit
> to the number of arguments to vbaplsinit. Or is there possibly another way
> of doing vbap spatialization with more than 16 speakers? I would appreciate
> any help on this.
>
> Thanks,
> M
>
>
>
> Marlon wrote
>  Thanks, it seems to be a limitation of vbaplsinit rather than vbap.
>  See for instance the .csd example below and run with one of the two
>  alternative vbaplsinit calls, the only difference being the number of
>  arguments to vbaplsinit.
>  
>  Cheers,
>  M
>  
>  <CsoundSynthesizer>
>  <CsOptions>
>  </CsOptions>
>  <CsInstruments>
>  sr = 44100
>  nchnls = 37
>  
>  ; OUTCOMMENT ONE OF THE TWO VBAPLSINIT CALLS BELOW
>  
>  ; this one works ---
>  vbaplsinit   2, 16, 0.000, 10.000, 20.000, 30.000, 40.000, 50.000, 60.000,
>  70.000, 80.000, 90.000, 100.000, 110.000, 120.000, 130.000, 140.000,
>  150.000
>  ; ----------------------
>  ; this one doesn't ---
>  ;vbaplsinit   2, 37, 0.000, 10.000, 20.000, 30.000, 40.000, 50.000,
>  60.000, 70.000, 80.000, 90.000, 100.000, 110.000, 120.000, 130.000,
>  140.000, 150.000, 160.000, 170.000, 180.000, 190.000, 200.000, 210.000,
>  220.000, 230.000, 240.000, 250.000, 260.000, -90.000, -80.000, -70.000,
>  -60.000, -50.000, -40.000, -30.000, -20.000, -10.000, 0.000
>  ; ----------------------
>  
>  instr 1
>  
>  aArr[] init 37
>  
>  asound oscils 0dbfs/4, 440, 0
>  
>  aArr[] vbap asound, 90, 0, 10
>  
>  outc aArr[0], aArr[1], aArr[2], aArr[3], aArr[4], aArr[5], aArr[6],
>  aArr[7], aArr[8], aArr[9], aArr[10], aArr[11], aArr[12], aArr[13],
>  aArr[14], aArr[15], aArr[16], aArr[17], aArr[18], aArr[19], aArr[20],
>  aArr[21], aArr[22], aArr[23], aArr[24], aArr[25], aArr[26], aArr[27],
>  aArr[28], aArr[29], aArr[30], aArr[31], aArr[32], aArr[33], aArr[34],
>  aArr[35], aArr[36]
>  
>  endin
>  </CsInstruments>
>  <CsScore>
>  i1 0 1
>  </CsScore>
>  </CsoundSynthesizer>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/vbaplsinit-limits-vbap-to-16-speakers-tp5755244p5755429.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [Csnd] vbaplsinit limits vbap to 16 speakers?

jpff
How many speaker positions do you want?  It is trivial to increase this to
say
64 in 3D, but there are other options

1) Allow vbapinit to take an array so arbitrary number

2) Allow vbapinit to take an f-table with the data

or both.  Anyone ave preferences?
==Jon

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Re: [Csnd] vbaplsinit limits vbap to 16 speakers?

Marlon
Hi,

for backward compatibility it might be sensible to keep the syntax and just increase the max number of args to 256?
Second option would be the array imho.

Cheers,
Marlon

> On 03 Apr 2017, at 15:41, jpff [via Csound] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> How many speaker positions do you want?  It is trivial to increase this to
> say
> 64 in 3D, but there are other options
>
> 1) Allow vbapinit to take an array so arbitrary number
>
> 2) Allow vbapinit to take an f-table with the data
>
> or both.  Anyone ave preferences?
> ==Jon
>
> Csound mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
>
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/vbaplsinit-limits-vbap-to-16-speakers-tp5755244p5755456.html
> To unsubscribe from vbaplsinit limits vbap to 16 speakers?, click here.
> NAML

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Re: [Csnd] vbaplsinit limits vbap to 16 speakers?

jpff
The old opcode would always remain.  Just thought of a few (intenral)
nasties to be considered.  I think the current limit is 16 in 3D and 32 is
2D but it is hard to be certain(!)

On Mon, 3 Apr 2017, Marlon wrote:

> Hi, for backward compatibility it might be sensible to keep the syntax and
> just increase the max number of args to 256? Second option would be the array
> imho. Cheers, Marlon > On 03 Apr 2017, at 15:41, jpff [via Csound] <[hidden
> email]> wrote: > > How many speaker positions do you want?  It is trivial to
> increase this to > say > 64 in 3D, but there are other options > > 1) Allow
> vbapinit to take an array so arbitrary number > > 2) Allow vbapinit to take an
> f-table with the data > > or both.  Anyone ave preferences? > ==Jon > > Csound
> mailing list > [hidden email] >
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND> Send bugs reports to >      
>   https://github.com/csound/csound/issues> Discussions of bugs and features
> can be posted here > > > If you reply to this email, your message will be
> added to the discussion below: >http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/vbaplsinit-limits-vbap-to-16-speakers-tp5
> 755244p5755456.html> To unsubscribe from vbaplsinit limits vbap to 16
> speakers?, click here. > NAML
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> View this message in context: Re: [Csnd] vbaplsinit limits vbap to 16
> speakers? Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Csnd] vbaplsinit limits vbap to 16 speakers?

jpff
Actual current limit was 64 but the syntax check was wrong.  Just committing a
64 speaker version, in line wit the manual.

Will think about the array vesio, possily tomorrow
==John ff

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Re: [Csnd] vbaplsinit limits vbap to 16 speakers?

Michael Gogins-2
In reply to this post by jpff
Array.

Best,
Mike

On Apr 4, 2017 5:41 AM, "jpff" <[hidden email]> wrote:
How many speaker positions do you want?  It is trivial to increase this to say 64 in 3D, but there are other options

1) Allow vbapinit to take an array so arbitrary number

2) Allow vbapinit to take an f-table with the data

or both.  Anyone ave preferences?
==Jon

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Re: [Csnd] vbaplsinit limits vbap to 16 speakers?

joachim-3
+1

        joachim

On 03/04/17 23:19, Michael Gogins wrote:

> Array.
>
> Best,
> Mike
>
> On Apr 4, 2017 5:41 AM, "jpff" <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     How many speaker positions do you want?  It is trivial to increase
>     this to say 64 in 3D, but there are other options
>
>     1) Allow vbapinit to take an array so arbitrary number
>
>     2) Allow vbapinit to take an f-table with the data
>
>     or both.  Anyone ave preferences?
>     ==Jon
>
>     Csound mailing list
>     [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
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Re: [Csnd] vbaplsinit limits vbap to 16 speakers?

jpff
In reply to this post by Marlon
vbapinit can now take an array and Upton 128 speakers.

Two comments

1: in testing found vbap opcode is broken; will take a while to fix.
vbap4 is OK so I have a model

2: I can see a way to make the number of speakers truly arbitrary, but
will take a lot of e-engineering

==John ff

On Mon, 3 Apr 2017, Marlon wrote:

> Hi, for backward compatibility it might be sensible to keep the syntax and
> just increase the max number of args to 256? Second option would be the array
> imho. Cheers, Marlon

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