blue and Csound5

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blue and Csound5

David Akbari
Hi List,

I tried emailing this to the Bluemusic-users list but the mailman
doesn't like me :( ...

Anyway,  I have found Blue to be an amazing tool for use with studying
computer music composition.

I currently use the current CVS builds of both Csound5 and Blue
(0.99.7) and I have found the sometimes the csound process fails to
quit on OSX (10.3.9). The Blue process proceeds as normal but it
appears suddenly that the computer slows to a halt! A top command
reveals that it is a stray csound process that had not been terminated
properly!

How is it that users would be able to fix this problem? Is it a
preference intended for use with realtime performance??


-David

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Re: blue and Csound5

Steven Yi
Hi David,

The bluemusic-users mailing list only accepts messages from people who
are subscribed to the list as a measure to prevent spamming of the
list, so not that the list doesn't like you, just that you need to
become friends with it. =)

As for the stray csound command, I've come across that before but
thought I had gotten rid of the problem.  I'll take a look at the code
to see if there isn't any checking code that is off.  Whenever it's
happened to me, I've always done a "ps -Al" (not sure that works on
OSX, but a ps command with -aux maybe will do) to see if a csound
process is hanging around, then will use either "killall csound" to
kill all the processes, or if it's not stopping to issue a "kill -i #"
where # is the process number.  I think that should work for OSX.

Is the project you were working on in blue one which is for live
performance, or simply rendering in realtime?

steven

On 9/17/05, David Akbari <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi List,
>
> I tried emailing this to the Bluemusic-users list but the mailman
> doesn't like me :( ...
>
> Anyway,  I have found Blue to be an amazing tool for use with studying
> computer music composition.
>
> I currently use the current CVS builds of both Csound5 and Blue
> (0.99.7) and I have found the sometimes the csound process fails to
> quit on OSX (10.3.9). The Blue process proceeds as normal but it
> appears suddenly that the computer slows to a halt! A top command
> reveals that it is a stray csound process that had not been terminated
> properly!
>
> How is it that users would be able to fix this problem? Is it a
> preference intended for use with realtime performance??
>
>
> -David
>
> --
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
>
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Re: blue and Csound5

David Akbari
Hi Steven,

On Sep 18, 2005, at 4:46 PM, Steven Yi wrote:

> The bluemusic-users mailing list only accepts messages from people who
> are subscribed to the list as a measure to prevent spamming of the
> list, so not that the list doesn't like you, just that you need to
> become friends with it. =)

Ah yes, I had subscribed and I view the list from the address that I
was sending from (not this one) and it still gave errors.

>
> As for the stray csound command, I've come across that before but
> thought I had gotten rid of the problem.  I'll take a look at the code
> to see if there isn't any checking code that is off.  Whenever it's
> happened to me, I've always done a "ps -Al" (not sure that works on
> OSX, but a ps command with -aux maybe will do) to see if a csound
> process is hanging around, then will use either "killall csound" to
> kill all the processes, or if it's not stopping to issue a "kill -i #"
> where # is the process number.  I think that should work for OSX.
>

yes the ps -aux works great and then kill -9 <process id> It is
possibly good to point out for other users that the -9 flag is key!! A
vanilla kill will not work in this case.

The process does not continue and is terminated as expected with
versions of Csound4:

csound4.23f11
csound4.23f12
csound4.23f13.gbs0

however it is only with Csound5 (canonical CVS) that the process does
not terminate. Perhaps Blue does not have a method for recognizing that
the end of csoundPerformKsmps() should terminate the performance and
the executable continues because it expects a method from flavors of
csound4 where many functions are of void type.

> Is the project you were working on in blue one which is for live
> performance, or simply rendering in realtime?
>

It is ultimately going to be rendered, but I am always thinking about
using these things in realtime!


-David

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Re: blue and Csound5

Steven Yi
Hi David,

> Ah yes, I had subscribed and I view the list from the address that I
> was sending from (not this one) and it still gave errors.

Strange; if you could send me the error message the mail server gave
(off list) I can check to see if there's something funny with it.

> yes the ps -aux works great and then kill -9 <process id> It is
> possibly good to point out for other users that the -9 flag is key!! A
> vanilla kill will not work in this case.
>
> The process does not continue and is terminated as expected with
> versions of Csound4:
>
> csound4.23f11
> csound4.23f12
> csound4.23f13.gbs0
>
> however it is only with Csound5 (canonical CVS) that the process does
> not terminate. Perhaps Blue does not have a method for recognizing that
> the end of csoundPerformKsmps() should terminate the performance and
> the executable continues because it expects a method from flavors of
> csound4 where many functions are of void type.

Well, this is strange as blue does not call csound using the API, only
executes the program.  The exit behavior for running csound5 with blue
should be exactly the same as if running csound5 from the commandline,
in that blue is waiting for csound5 to return from it's execution
before stopping.  If you generate a CSD to disk and run csound5 on the
CSD from the commandline, do you also get a hang at the end of
processing or does it return you to the prompt?

> It is ultimately going to be rendered, but I am always thinking about
> using these things in realtime!

Ah, okay, I think you use it pretty much as I do, which is to listen
in realtime while working, but ultimately rendering to disk in the
end.  There's no reason why it should work on OSX.  I haven't tested
with OSX in quite some time, and I probably won't be able to for at
least a week as I'm still on jury duty this week and won't be
accessing my OSX computer at work until next week, but I've written a
note to take a look at it when I get back into the office.

steven
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Re: blue and Csound5

David Akbari
In reply to this post by Steven Yi
To follow up on this,

It seems that the STOP button in the upper right hand corner's
transport does not have an explicit method to terminate Csound. If I
start a realtime performance with an instr that is quite long and then
press STOP quickly after the Csound process does not seem to respond,
and it doesn't even appear that you can break the Csound process (F7)
with CTRL + C!

What seems to work quite well is to use the CMD + SHIFT + F9 command to
render to disk. I have not had one error yet using this technique. It
seems also that the "F7" csound process and the cmd + shift + F9 are
calling Csound in different ways ...

Using the render method however, I have found blue to be quite an
amazing tool for use in computer music composition. The XML system also
allows for easy extendibility, like appending opcodes from Csound5 to
the contextual menu. Is it hard to make the <signature> print to the
lower bar window on opcode highlight. This bar usually says the last
action for example "Saved blue.blue to $HOME" it would be really great
if you could parse the text from the signature tag on the screen as a
"mini manual" like in MacCsound or Cecilia.

Otherwise Blue is a joy to work with, keep up the good work Steven and
others using the program!


-David

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Re: blue and Csound5

Steven Yi
Hi David,

The stop button should terminate csound but I have noticed something
similar to what you are mentioning before.  That whole bit of code is
not the cleanest and is needing some attention, and having a scenario
of pressing it quickly after a Csound process starts is very helpful.
Thanks for that bit of feedback!

As for cmd-shift-F9, you can also use shift-F9 to render to disk and
have blue automatically play the file after rendering.  The two
methods of rendering (to disk versus normal render) differ in calling
csound but only as you define it in the project properties.  They do
differ in what they do around it because of the different use case
scenarios.  I think now that the issue may be because rendering live
there is a lot of threads going on and checks for loop rendering and I
suspect that there is perhaps a bug there.

As for the signature, I find it more useful to use the code completion
feature (ctrl-space) which pops open a dialog and fills in the rest of
the code with he signature from the opcodes.xml file, I guess
primarily becuase it matches my usage of development environments I
program in (eclipse, netbeans, etc.).  To better implement something
like you mention though I'd like to redo some other code to get the
status area more usable.  Anyways, if you could, please file a feature
request at the blue sourceforge page (accessible from the help menu in
blue), as I'm just now getting to a backlog of emails and other things
and am afraid I will miss the request in the future.

Very glad to hear you're enjoying blue and glad to hear your feedback on it!

^_^

steven

On 9/20/05, David Akbari <[hidden email]> wrote:

> To follow up on this,
>
> It seems that the STOP button in the upper right hand corner's
> transport does not have an explicit method to terminate Csound. If I
> start a realtime performance with an instr that is quite long and then
> press STOP quickly after the Csound process does not seem to respond,
> and it doesn't even appear that you can break the Csound process (F7)
> with CTRL + C!
>
> What seems to work quite well is to use the CMD + SHIFT + F9 command to
> render to disk. I have not had one error yet using this technique. It
> seems also that the "F7" csound process and the cmd + shift + F9 are
> calling Csound in different ways ...
>
> Using the render method however, I have found blue to be quite an
> amazing tool for use in computer music composition. The XML system also
> allows for easy extendibility, like appending opcodes from Csound5 to
> the contextual menu. Is it hard to make the <signature> print to the
> lower bar window on opcode highlight. This bar usually says the last
> action for example "Saved blue.blue to $HOME" it would be really great
> if you could parse the text from the signature tag on the screen as a
> "mini manual" like in MacCsound or Cecilia.
>
> Otherwise Blue is a joy to work with, keep up the good work Steven and
> others using the program!
>
>
> -David
>
> --
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
>
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Re: blue and Csound5

Uğur Güney
# I'm encountering with a similar problem. Sometimes(?) (I think this
"sometimes" refers to "when I'm using Asio4All and real-time output",
but I'm not sure) when I press stop button the computer restarts
itself without asking or warning, namely it crashes. This happened
when using both CsoundAV and Csound5. Are you aware of this kind of a
bug, or is this problem only related to my computers configuration.
(WinXP, Live! value soundcard)
-uğur-

On 9/21/05, Steven Yi <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> The stop button should terminate csound but I have noticed something
> similar to what you are mentioning before.  That whole bit of code is
> not the cleanest and is needing some attention, and having a scenario
> of pressing it quickly after a Csound process starts is very helpful.
> Thanks for that bit of feedback!
>
> As for cmd-shift-F9, you can also use shift-F9 to render to disk and
> have blue automatically play the file after rendering.  The two
> methods of rendering (to disk versus normal render) differ in calling
> csound but only as you define it in the project properties.  They do
> differ in what they do around it because of the different use case
> scenarios.  I think now that the issue may be because rendering live
> there is a lot of threads going on and checks for loop rendering and I
> suspect that there is perhaps a bug there.
>
> As for the signature, I find it more useful to use the code completion
> feature (ctrl-space) which pops open a dialog and fills in the rest of
> the code with he signature from the opcodes.xml file, I guess
> primarily becuase it matches my usage of development environments I
> program in (eclipse, netbeans, etc.).  To better implement something
> like you mention though I'd like to redo some other code to get the
> status area more usable.  Anyways, if you could, please file a feature
> request at the blue sourceforge page (accessible from the help menu in
> blue), as I'm just now getting to a backlog of emails and other things
> and am afraid I will miss the request in the future.
>
> Very glad to hear you're enjoying blue and glad to hear your feedback on it!
>
> ^_^
>
> steven
>
> On 9/20/05, David Akbari <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > To follow up on this,
> >
> > It seems that the STOP button in the upper right hand corner's
> > transport does not have an explicit method to terminate Csound. If I
> > start a realtime performance with an instr that is quite long and then
> > press STOP quickly after the Csound process does not seem to respond,
> > and it doesn't even appear that you can break the Csound process (F7)
> > with CTRL + C!
> >
> > What seems to work quite well is to use the CMD + SHIFT + F9 command to
> > render to disk. I have not had one error yet using this technique. It
> > seems also that the "F7" csound process and the cmd + shift + F9 are
> > calling Csound in different ways ...
> >
> > Using the render method however, I have found blue to be quite an
> > amazing tool for use in computer music composition. The XML system also
> > allows for easy extendibility, like appending opcodes from Csound5 to
> > the contextual menu. Is it hard to make the <signature> print to the
> > lower bar window on opcode highlight. This bar usually says the last
> > action for example "Saved blue.blue to $HOME" it would be really great
> > if you could parse the text from the signature tag on the screen as a
> > "mini manual" like in MacCsound or Cecilia.
> >
> > Otherwise Blue is a joy to work with, keep up the good work Steven and
> > others using the program!
> >
> >
> > -David
> >
> > --
> > Send bugs reports to this list.
> > To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
> >
> --
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
>
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