Thanks for the encouragement and advice

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Thanks for the encouragement and advice

Christine L. Myers
Hello!

First, I want to thank you all so much for giving me some great places to start!  I'm kinda just plunging in, looking at all the various aspects of creating music on a computer and you guys are helping me to know what a great pool it is to be in.  The command line thing was what was hanging me up before with cSoundVST, so now I'll study up on how to do that.  Which is the flag for real-time output?  I'd like to hear it right away, instead of having to go find the resultant wav file and play it in a seperate program - if it is possible.

Quick question - is there anything I can do to keep my computer from being confused about the sco files?  I have Sibelius, and it sometimes knows that they are cSound score files, and other times it thinks they are Sibelius Scorch files.  It looks like .sco is the same extension for both...maybe there is nothing I can do, except open whichever program first and then open the actual file I want instead of double clicking on the file in My Documents.

Do you all think it might be helpful for me to take my understanding of written musical notation to score files by writing out in csound some well-known public domain melodies (I'll probably use church hymns), using whatever basic sine wave I make in an orchestra file?   Or would that be counter-productive?

Thanks again for your help!
Christine
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cvanal and macCsound

idmeyers
I was trying to use the cvanal utility  by typing -U cvanal  
experiment.aif experiment.con   in the  "advanced commandline options" box
in the options sub menu but when I push play it produces an error
cvanalexperiment.aifexperiment.com isn't a utility.  How do I make sure
that the spaces stay in there or is there some better way to use the
utility?

David

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Re: Thanks for the encouragement and advice

Aidan Collins
In reply to this post by Christine L. Myers
two things,
does csoundVST use the .csd format? that is a bundle of an .orc and a
.sco file, which might ease the confusion if you use those. (I'm a mac
user and all my MacCsound files are .csd)

as far as the score writing goes, the look and feel of your score
completely depends on how you have constructed your instrument. For
example, you could have a pfield designate pitch in hz, or pitch as a
midi number, or as a ratio of a base frequency. Pretty much any
parameter can be whatever you design it to be, so there's no real
'system' of scores to get used to.
you can easily set up Csound to use your existing scores if you make
.orc's as midi instruments. You could just send midi to Csound and use
any sequencer you are comfortable with and play it directly from
there. (does sibelius play scores like that?) personally, I send midi
to Csound from Max/MSP all the time.
However, making Csound midi takes a little getting used to, but I'm
sure you can get plenty of pointers on the list.

On 3/2/06, Christine L. Myers <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello!
>
>  First, I want to thank you all so much for giving me some great places to
> start!  I'm kinda just plunging in, looking at all the various aspects of
> creating music on a computer and you guys are helping me to know what a
> great pool it is to be in.  The command line thing was what was hanging me
> up before with cSoundVST, so now I'll study up on how to do that.  Which is
> the flag for real-time output?  I'd like to hear it right away, instead of
> having to go find the resultant wav file and play it in a seperate program -
> if it is possible.
>
>  Quick question - is there anything I can do to keep my computer from being
> confused about the sco files?  I have Sibelius, and it sometimes knows that
> they are cSound score files, and other times it thinks they are Sibelius
> Scorch files.  It looks like .sco is the same extension for both...maybe
> there is nothing I can do, except open whichever program first and then open
> the actual file I want instead of double clicking on the file in My
> Documents.
>
>  Do you all think it might be helpful for me to take my understanding of
> written musical notation to score files by writing out in csound some
> well-known public domain melodies (I'll probably use church hymns), using
> whatever basic sine wave I make in an orchestra file?   Or would that be
> counter-productive?
>
>  Thanks again for your help!
>  Christine
>
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Re: Thanks for the encouragement and advice

Steven Yi
In reply to this post by Christine L. Myers
Hi Christine,

I don't think there's anything you can do about the sco file
associations and will have to choose which program is more convenient
to you to have associated with the files.

As for your exercise of melody writing, I think it's a good exercise
to do, though you might not want to do a whole piece as it can be
quite a bit.  Maybe do as much as you feel is necessary to feel like
you have a good understanding of what is going on.  I think if you're
working and it feels like experimentation and exploration, keep going,
but if it starts to feel like tedium, stop and try something
different, maybe introducing another p-field to the simple sine
instrument to control articulation, etc.  Keeping in mind a musical
goal will help keep the exercise enjoyable and fruitful.

BTW, this brings up a general question I'd like to ask the list.  I've
been reading Max Mathews "The Technology of Computer Music", a text on
computer music and Music V from 1969 which has been very interesting
to read.  There are may aspects of it as a manual I think are
excellent which makes me see ways in which the current manual can be
further improved.  One aspect of the Mathews text I enjoyed and
thought would be good to have for Csound is it discusses a number of
note writing scenarios (in standard music score notation) and how to
achieve those with a combination of instrument design and note
writing.  Would a tutorial text or Csound Journal Article be found
useful to demonstrate these ideas, gradually starting with very simple
instrument/note writing and slowly adding more and more features, with
a graphic of a music score shown at each step?

(Also, i found interesting the fact that Music V had score generation
routines introduced as a part of the music making process.  It's
something which isn't inherent in Csound itself (unless you use
CScore, but that sort of requires a separate process outside of the
orc/sco/csd itself, while the Music V routines seem to be inline as
Fortran code).  Anyways, a side note to the conversation. )

Hope that helps and good luck!
steven




On 3/2/06, Christine L. Myers <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello!
>
>  First, I want to thank you all so much for giving me some great places to
> start!  I'm kinda just plunging in, looking at all the various aspects of
> creating music on a computer and you guys are helping me to know what a
> great pool it is to be in.  The command line thing was what was hanging me
> up before with cSoundVST, so now I'll study up on how to do that.  Which is
> the flag for real-time output?  I'd like to hear it right away, instead of
> having to go find the resultant wav file and play it in a seperate program -
> if it is possible.
>
>  Quick question - is there anything I can do to keep my computer from being
> confused about the sco files?  I have Sibelius, and it sometimes knows that
> they are cSound score files, and other times it thinks they are Sibelius
> Scorch files.  It looks like .sco is the same extension for both...maybe
> there is nothing I can do, except open whichever program first and then open
> the actual file I want instead of double clicking on the file in My
> Documents.
>
>  Do you all think it might be helpful for me to take my understanding of
> written musical notation to score files by writing out in csound some
> well-known public domain melodies (I'll probably use church hymns), using
> whatever basic sine wave I make in an orchestra file?   Or would that be
> counter-productive?
>
>  Thanks again for your help!
>  Christine
>
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Re: Thanks for the encouragement and advice

jpff
In reply to this post by Christine L. Myers
>>>>> "Christine" == Christine L Myers <[hidden email]> writes:

 Christine>                                                                    Which is
 Christine> the flag for real-time output?  I'd like to hear it right away, instead of
 Christine> having to go find the resultant wav file and play it in a seperate program -
 Christine> if it is possible.

-o dac
is the usual command-line option for this.  There are other versions
depending on the platform.  At present I do not use Windows so you
might do better to take advice from one who does!

 Christine> Quick question - is there anything I can do to keep my computer from being
 Christine> confused about the sco files?  I have Sibelius, and it sometimes knows that
 Christine> they are cSound score files, and other times it thinks they are Sibelius
 Christine> Scorch files.  It looks like .sco is the same extension for both...maybe
 Christine> there is nothing I can do, except open whichever program first and then open
 Christine> the actual file I want instead of double clicking on the file in My
 Christine> Documents.

There is no requirement to call a score .sco; it just kinda evolved.
You could call it .xxx or .ocs or whatever you want.

 Christine> Do you all think it might be helpful for me to take my understanding of
 Christine> written musical notation to score files by writing out in csound some
 Christine> well-known public domain melodies (I'll probably use church hymns), using
 Christine> whatever basic sine wave I make in an orchestra file?   Or would that be
 Christine> counter-productive?

It depends if you want to understand scoring or sounds first.  I have
found that some simple hymn tune has been interesting -- I used the
Old Hundredth to investigate automated phrasing.  Mind you if you do
not want to stick to 12ET scales this could be more of an illusion.
You could try scoring a hymn in 12ET and then change it to some Just
Intonation scale?

==John ffitch
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Re: cvanal and macCsound

Anthony Kozar
In reply to this post by idmeyers
I believe that you can open your soundfile in MacCsound using the File ->
Open menu item.  Then there should be a pop-up menu in the soundfile window
that allows you to choose different utilities.

Anthony Kozar
anthonykozar AT sbcglobal DOT net



[hidden email] wrote on 3/3/06 12:04 AM:

> I was trying to use the cvanal utility  by typing -U cvanal
> experiment.aif experiment.con   in the  "advanced commandline options" box
> in the options sub menu but when I push play it produces an error
> cvanalexperiment.aifexperiment.com isn't a utility.  How do I make sure
> that the spaces stay in there or is there some better way to use the
> utility?
>
> David

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Re: Thanks for the encouragement and advice

abhunkin
In reply to this post by jpff
John,

Are you saying that - in <CsOptions> or on the commandline - the first
filename with extension is automatically taken to be an orchestra or .csd
file and the second (if present) a score file?

Does there even need to be an extension?

Art Hunkins

----- Original Message -----
From: <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 1:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Csnd] Thanks for the encouragement and advice


> >>>>> "Christine" == Christine L Myers <[hidden email]> writes:
>
>
> There is no requirement to call a score .sco; it just kinda evolved.
> You could call it .xxx or .ocs or whatever you want.
>
>
> ==John ffitch
> --
> Send bugs reports to this list.
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Re: cvanal and macCsound

Mitchell Turner
In reply to this post by Anthony Kozar
For some reason, the sound file cannot be to deep inside of folders  
when using the utilities in MacCsound.  I have forgotten the exact  
limit, but the utilities work if you place your sound file on the  
desktop or somewhere like ~/Music/Csound .  Matt told me what the  
limit was at one point.
Mitfch



On Mar 3, 2006, at 11:23 AM, Anthony Kozar wrote:

> I believe that you can open your soundfile in MacCsound using the  
> File ->
> Open menu item.  Then there should be a pop-up menu in the  
> soundfile window
> that allows you to choose different utilities.
>
> Anthony Kozar
> anthonykozar AT sbcglobal DOT net
>
>
>
> [hidden email] wrote on 3/3/06 12:04 AM:
>
>> I was trying to use the cvanal utility  by typing -U cvanal
>> experiment.aif experiment.con   in the  "advanced commandline  
>> options" box
>> in the options sub menu but when I push play it produces an error
>> cvanalexperiment.aifexperiment.com isn't a utility.  How do I make  
>> sure
>> that the spaces stay in there or is there some better way to use the
>> utility?
>>
>> David
>
> --
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]

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Re: Thanks for the encouragement and advice

Istvan Varga
In reply to this post by abhunkin
The first non-option argument (i.e. one that does not begin with a - character
and does not follow an option like -F that expects a file name) is the
orchestra name, or CSD if it has a .csd extension (case insensitive).
The second non-option argument is the score - this obviously only makes sense
if you do not use a .csd file: if there are two names, the first one will be
used as orchestra, even if it has a .csd extension. If there is an orchestra
but no score, a dummy score file for real time use is assumed (in practice,
this is a single 'f0 42000' line). If the score name has a .srt or .xtr
extension, it is assumed to be already sorted.
If there are more than two non-option arguments, an error is printed and
compilation is aborted. Orchestra, score, and CSD name is allowed on the
command line; while it is not an error if such file names are encountered in
<CsOptions>, they are ignored. Using any orc/sco/csd file name in .csoundrc
is an error.
You can mix options with orchestra/score/CSD names in any order.

On Friday 03 March 2006 17:54, Art Hunkins wrote:

> Are you saying that - in <CsOptions> or on the commandline - the first
> filename with extension is automatically taken to be an orchestra or .csd
> file and the second (if present) a score file?
>
> Does there even need to be an extension?
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Re: cvanal and macCsound

idmeyers
In reply to this post by Mitchell Turner
Sorry about the repost.. Thanx
David

> For some reason, the sound file cannot be to deep inside of folders
> when using the utilities in MacCsound.  I have forgotten the exact
> limit, but the utilities work if you place your sound file on the
> desktop or somewhere like ~/Music/Csound .  Matt told me what the
> limit was at one point.
> Mitfch
>
>
>
> On Mar 3, 2006, at 11:23 AM, Anthony Kozar wrote:
>
>> I believe that you can open your soundfile in MacCsound using the
>> File ->
>> Open menu item.  Then there should be a pop-up menu in the
>> soundfile window
>> that allows you to choose different utilities.
>>
>> Anthony Kozar
>> anthonykozar AT sbcglobal DOT net
>>
>>
>>
>> [hidden email] wrote on 3/3/06 12:04 AM:
>>
>>> I was trying to use the cvanal utility  by typing -U cvanal
>>> experiment.aif experiment.con   in the  "advanced commandline
>>> options" box
>>> in the options sub menu but when I push play it produces an error
>>> cvanalexperiment.aifexperiment.com isn't a utility.  How do I make
>>> sure
>>> that the spaces stay in there or is there some better way to use the
>>> utility?
>>>
>>> David
>>
>> --
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
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>
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Re: Thanks for the encouragement and advice

jpff
In reply to this post by abhunkin
>>>>> "Art" == Art Hunkins <[hidden email]> writes:

 Art> John,
 Art> Are you saying that - in <CsOptions> or on the commandline - the first
 Art> filename with extension is automatically taken to be an orchestra or .csd
 Art> file and the second (if present) a score file?

 Art> Does there even need to be an extension?

Unless someone has changed it without my knowing, yes.  I often used
to compile the orchestra a.sco against the score s.orc (!)

In Winsound there was a bias towards the .orc/.sco/.csd extensions,
but that was totally in the frontend and not part of Csound

==John ffitch
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