Re: [Csnd] Computer music and WebAssembly

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Re: [Csnd] Computer music and WebAssembly

Tarmo Johannes-3
Hi,

thanks! I now got to read it, very good to keep attention on it and great that
Csound has been (I think) one of the pioneers with work on web-based
solutions.

This is off topic but would you imagine the status of proprietary software,
say Max MSP, do they have  any interest to go web based? Hardly they are going
to open their API ...

Thanks!
tarmo

On neljapäev, 15. veebruar 2018 18:18.23 EET you wrote:

> Some of you may be interested to read my reflections on a possible
> future direction for computer music in the WebAssemby world. This is
> based on my experience creating the Csound Showcase Web site and
> working with the Csound for WebAssembly build created by Victor
> Lazzarini, Edward Costello, and Steven Yi.
>
> https://michaelgogins.tumblr.com/post/170909054613/operating-systems-asleep-> at-the-wheel-and-the
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Michael Gogins
> Irreducible Productions
> http://michaelgogins.tumblr.com
> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>
> Csound mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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Re: [Csnd] Computer music and WebAssembly

Brian Redfern-2
Yeah for Android at least we are moving from native to progressive web apps. This is great because it's really hard to make money in the app store. With wasm plus progressive web apps you now have apple and Microsoft support in addition to Google. 

It's going to be interesting to see if Steinberg creates a new vst standard that compiles to wasm or whether the existing DAW companies and others like UAD will be laid to waste by new companies like soundtrap.

Csound on wasm is huge because it fills that gap, even if vst goes away all the kinds of instruments and effects from the vst world can be reproduced with csound.

On Feb 15, 2018 8:18 AM, "Michael Gogins" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Some of you may be interested to read my reflections on a possible
future direction for computer music in the WebAssemby world. This is
based on my experience creating the Csound Showcase Web site and
working with the Csound for WebAssembly build created by Victor
Lazzarini, Edward Costello, and Steven Yi.

https://michaelgogins.tumblr.com/post/170909054613/operating-systems-asleep-at-the-wheel-and-the

Regards,
Mike

-----------------------------------------------------
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://michaelgogins.tumblr.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

Csound mailing list
[hidden email]
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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Re: [Csnd] Computer music and WebAssembly

Michael Gogins-2
VST 2 is dead simple C/C++ and can already be compiled to wasm. I have not included it only because wasm doesn't yet support dynamic loading of modules, but that is planned. I don't know any wasm hosts or other plugins. There would be no ability for a wasm host to load native plugins (yet).

I also don't know how the wasm ecosystem plans to support proprietary, locked, or signed code. 

Regards, 
Mike

On Feb 19, 2018 05:57, "Brian Redfern" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yeah for Android at least we are moving from native to progressive web apps. This is great because it's really hard to make money in the app store. With wasm plus progressive web apps you now have apple and Microsoft support in addition to Google. 

It's going to be interesting to see if Steinberg creates a new vst standard that compiles to wasm or whether the existing DAW companies and others like UAD will be laid to waste by new companies like soundtrap.

Csound on wasm is huge because it fills that gap, even if vst goes away all the kinds of instruments and effects from the vst world can be reproduced with csound.

On Feb 15, 2018 8:18 AM, "Michael Gogins" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Some of you may be interested to read my reflections on a possible
future direction for computer music in the WebAssemby world. This is
based on my experience creating the Csound Showcase Web site and
working with the Csound for WebAssembly build created by Victor
Lazzarini, Edward Costello, and Steven Yi.

https://michaelgogins.tumblr.com/post/170909054613/operating-systems-asleep-at-the-wheel-and-the

Regards,
Mike

-----------------------------------------------------
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://michaelgogins.tumblr.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

Csound mailing list
[hidden email]
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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Re: [Csnd] Computer music and WebAssembly

Victor Lazzarini-2
I think we’ll also need to wait for dynamic loading to be available in WASM (e.g. dlsym and friends) or
a similar mechanism to load plugins.
========================
Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy,
Maynooth University,
Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
Tel: 00 353 7086936
Fax: 00 353 1 7086952

> On 19 Feb 2018, at 10:57, Michael Gogins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> VST 2 is dead simple C/C++ and can already be compiled to wasm. I have not included it only because wasm doesn't yet support dynamic loading of modules, but that is planned. I don't know any wasm hosts or other plugins. There would be no ability for a wasm host to load native plugins (yet).
>
> I also don't know how the wasm ecosystem plans to support proprietary, locked, or signed code.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> On Feb 19, 2018 05:57, "Brian Redfern" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Yeah for Android at least we are moving from native to progressive web apps. This is great because it's really hard to make money in the app store. With wasm plus progressive web apps you now have apple and Microsoft support in addition to Google.
>
> It's going to be interesting to see if Steinberg creates a new vst standard that compiles to wasm or whether the existing DAW companies and others like UAD will be laid to waste by new companies like soundtrap.
>
> Csound on wasm is huge because it fills that gap, even if vst goes away all the kinds of instruments and effects from the vst world can be reproduced with csound.
>
> On Feb 15, 2018 8:18 AM, "Michael Gogins" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Some of you may be interested to read my reflections on a possible
> future direction for computer music in the WebAssemby world. This is
> based on my experience creating the Csound Showcase Web site and
> working with the Csound for WebAssembly build created by Victor
> Lazzarini, Edward Costello, and Steven Yi.
>
> https://michaelgogins.tumblr.com/post/170909054613/operating-systems-asleep-at-the-wheel-and-the
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Michael Gogins
> Irreducible Productions
> http://michaelgogins.tumblr.com
> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>
> Csound mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here


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Re: [Csnd] Computer music and WebAssembly

Oliver Larkin
In reply to this post by Brian Redfern-2
Hello all,

please help us get a create API developed by enthusiasts first before we get lumbered with an atrocity like VST3



and



All work in progress / bleeding edge stuff

oli



On 19 Feb 2018, at 08:57, Brian Redfern <[hidden email]> wrote:

It's going to be interesting to see if Steinberg creates a new vst standard that compiles to wasm or whether the existing DAW companies and others like UAD will be laid to waste by new companies like soundtrap.


Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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Re: [Csnd] Computer music and WebAssembly

Oliver Larkin
please help us create an api…



On 19 Feb 2018, at 23:41, Oliver Larkin <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello all,

please help us get a create API developed by enthusiasts first before we get lumbered with an atrocity like VST3



and



All work in progress / bleeding edge stuff

oli



On 19 Feb 2018, at 08:57, Brian Redfern <[hidden email]> wrote:

It's going to be interesting to see if Steinberg creates a new vst standard that compiles to wasm or whether the existing DAW companies and others like UAD will be laid to waste by new companies like soundtrap.



Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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Re: [Csnd] Computer music and WebAssembly

Victor Lazzarini-2
In reply to this post by Oliver Larkin
I’d say that is the way to go, it’s well 
worth a shot. Good job, Oli.

Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
Maynooth University
Ireland

On 19 Feb 2018, at 23:41, Oliver Larkin <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello all,

please help us get a create API developed by enthusiasts first before we get lumbered with an atrocity like VST3



and



All work in progress / bleeding edge stuff

oli



On 19 Feb 2018, at 08:57, Brian Redfern <[hidden email]> wrote:

It's going to be interesting to see if Steinberg creates a new vst standard that compiles to wasm or whether the existing DAW companies and others like UAD will be laid to waste by new companies like soundtrap.


Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here