No OPCODEDIR set message

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No OPCODEDIR set message

Steven Yi
Hi All,

Since OPCODEDIR and OPCODEDIR64 being set is coming up as an issue
over and over again, what does everyone think about displaying a
message to the user when they run Csound and it is not set, something
like:

###############################################################
# WARNING: OPCODEDIR IS NOT SET!                                      
                                #
# Csound requires this environment variable to be set to find it's
opcode libraries.#
# If It is not set, you may experience missing opcodes and audio/midi
drivers.       #
###############################################################

I would prefer something as loud as possible as the above, but a less
bold message would be fine too.  Any objections?

steven


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Re: No OPCODEDIR set message

Ken-4
Steven Yi wrote:

>Hi All,
>
>Since OPCODEDIR and OPCODEDIR64 being set is coming up as an issue
>over and over again, what does everyone think about displaying a
>message to the user when they run Csound and it is not set, something
>like:
>
>###############################################################
># WARNING: OPCODEDIR IS NOT SET!                                      
>                                #
># Csound requires this environment variable to be set to find it's
>opcode libraries.#
># If It is not set, you may experience missing opcodes and audio/midi
>drivers.       #
>###############################################################
>
>I would prefer something as loud as possible as the above, but a less
>bold message would be fine too.  Any objections?
>
>steven
>
>
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>  
>
excellent idea, how many times has this come up of recent...


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Re: No OPCODEDIR set message

Istvan Varga
In reply to this post by Steven Yi
Steven Yi wrote:

> Since OPCODEDIR and OPCODEDIR64 being set is coming up as an issue
> over and over again, what does everyone think about displaying a
> message to the user when they run Csound and it is not set, something
> like:

Actually, there is already a message with a second of delay to make it
more noticeable, but it can be changed as you suggested, and perhaps
it could be a fatal error instead of just a warning.


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Re: No OPCODEDIR set message

David Akbari

On Sep 15, 2005, at 12:43 PM, Istvan Varga wrote:

> Steven Yi wrote:
>
>> Since OPCODEDIR and OPCODEDIR64 being set is coming up as an issue
>> over and over again, what does everyone think about displaying a
>> message to the user when they run Csound and it is not set, something
>> like:
>
> Actually, there is already a message with a second of delay to make it
> more noticeable, but it can be changed as you suggested, and perhaps
> it could be a fatal error instead of just a warning.
>


YES, YES, YES!!! FATAL ERROR ALL CAPS LOUD LOUD LOUD.......

it has to be evident when running the app that this specific
environment variable is key. Also AFAIK this is the first version of
Csound to require this?

Is it possible to have a "reasonable default" set simply to the current
working directory ??


-David



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Re: No OPCODEDIR set message

Istvan Varga
David Akbari wrote:

> Is it possible to have a "reasonable default" set simply to the current
> working directory ??

It already defaults to the current directory, with printing a warning
and a one second delay at start-up. However, if Csound is installed
rather than just being run from the build directory, the plugins are
most probably not in the current directory.


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Re: No OPCODEDIR set message

Stephane Rollandin
Istvan Varga wrote:

> David Akbari wrote:
>
>> Is it possible to have a "reasonable default" set simply to the
>> current working directory ??
>
>
> It already defaults to the current directory, with printing a warning
> and a one second delay at start-up. However, if Csound is installed
> rather than just being run from the build directory, the plugins are
> most probably not in the current directory.
>

since there is a default value, I think it should not be a fatal error
if OPCODEDIR is not defined. this would greatly simplify the deployment
of csound-based apps such as my own, where it is important to tweak as
less as possible the host computer (for example, think about a portable
csound-based system on a USB key; it would be nice to be able to run it
directly from the key)


Stef


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Re: No OPCODEDIR set message

Stephane Rollandin
now that I think about it, it would be good to have a command-line flag
disabling the one-second delay :)


Stef


Stéphane Rollandin wrote:

> Istvan Varga wrote:
>> It already defaults to the current directory, with printing a warning
>> and a one second delay at start-up. However, if Csound is installed
>> rather than just being run from the build directory, the plugins are
>> most probably not in the current directory.
>>
>
> since there is a default value, I think it should not be a fatal error
> if OPCODEDIR is not defined. this would greatly simplify the deployment
> of csound-based apps such as my own, where it is important to tweak as
> less as possible the host computer (for example, think about a portable
> csound-based system on a USB key; it would be nice to be able to run it
> directly from the key)
>
>
> Stef
>



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Re: Ignore CsOptions (was: No OPCODEDIR set message)

David Akbari
In reply to this post by Istvan Varga

On Sep 15, 2005, at 1:03 PM, Istvan Varga wrote:

> David Akbari wrote:
>
>> Is it possible to have a "reasonable default" set simply to the
>> current working directory ??
>
> It already defaults to the current directory, with printing a warning
> and a one second delay at start-up. However, if Csound is installed
> rather than just being run from the build directory, the plugins are
> most probably not in the current directory.
>

That is an excellent feature. I did not notice it until today's CVS
build... this should be quite nice in the future.

I prefer for example to be having 3-4 different parallel builds of
Csound5 with different hardware config, FLTK, figuring out csound's
extensions, etc etc thus I really like the concept of the OPCODEDIR and
environment variables in general (users can use different shells to run
simultaneous instances of Csound5 in parallel).

Off topic, but does any facility exist at present to ignore all text in
the <CsOptions> flag? like

-+ignore_csopts=<boolean>

... i think this could be a really nice debugging feature....



-David



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Re: No OPCODEDIR set message

Michael Gogins
In reply to this post by Steven Yi
I would prefer a less blatant message, please! It's too hard, over a long period of development, to figure out which messages are really more important than others, so let them all be the same size and agony level.

Regards,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Yi <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sep 15, 2005 11:58 AM
To: Csound-dev <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Cs-dev] No OPCODEDIR set message

Hi All,

Since OPCODEDIR and OPCODEDIR64 being set is coming up as an issue
over and over again, what does everyone think about displaying a
message to the user when they run Csound and it is not set, something
like:

###############################################################
# WARNING: OPCODEDIR IS NOT SET!                                      
                                #
# Csound requires this environment variable to be set to find it's
opcode libraries.#
# If It is not set, you may experience missing opcodes and audio/midi
drivers.       #
###############################################################

I would prefer something as loud as possible as the above, but a less
bold message would be fine too.  Any objections?

steven


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Re: No OPCODEDIR set message

Michael Gogins
In reply to this post by Steven Yi
Well, it is not supposed to be a requirement. If the Csound program starts up in the same dir as the plugins, that is supposed to work.

My theory is that some less technical users will unzip everything into one directly, and everything will just work...

I have no strenuous objection to changing this though. Perhaps it is less confusing to just exit with an explanation if OPCODEDIR is not set.

Regards,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: David Akbari <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sep 15, 2005 1:00 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] No OPCODEDIR set message


On Sep 15, 2005, at 12:43 PM, Istvan Varga wrote:

> Steven Yi wrote:
>
>> Since OPCODEDIR and OPCODEDIR64 being set is coming up as an issue
>> over and over again, what does everyone think about displaying a
>> message to the user when they run Csound and it is not set, something
>> like:
>
> Actually, there is already a message with a second of delay to make it
> more noticeable, but it can be changed as you suggested, and perhaps
> it could be a fatal error instead of just a warning.
>


YES, YES, YES!!! FATAL ERROR ALL CAPS LOUD LOUD LOUD.......

it has to be evident when running the app that this specific
environment variable is key. Also AFAIK this is the first version of
Csound to require this?

Is it possible to have a "reasonable default" set simply to the current
working directory ??


-David



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Re: No OPCODEDIR set message

Istvan Varga
In reply to this post by Stephane Rollandin
You can set OPCODEDIR and/or OPCODEDIR64 to ".", which is the same as
the default, but without the annoying message and delay.

Stéphane Rollandin wrote:

> now that I think about it, it would be good to have a command-line flag
> disabling the one-second delay :)


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Re: Ignore CsOptions

Istvan Varga
In reply to this post by David Akbari
David Akbari wrote:

> Off topic, but does any facility exist at present to ignore all text in
> the <CsOptions> flag? like
>
> -+ignore_csopts=<boolean>
>
> ... i think this could be a really nice debugging feature....

There is no such option yet, but it can be added easily.



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Re: No OPCODEDIR set message

jpff
In reply to this post by David Akbari
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

I usually run without defining OPCODEDIR/OPCODEDIR64 and making that an
error would be a large negative move.

I also think that loading all plugins is the wrong approach, and leads
to code bloat; but that argument is for another day.

==John ffitch


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Re: No OPCODEDIR set message

Steven Yi
In reply to this post by Istvan Varga
Hi Istvan,

I think perhaps that if it is a bit more noticable it would perhaps
help people realize more that it isn't set.  I don't think it should
be a fatal warning as it doesn't prevent Csound itself from running,
but should be a warning message. it seems to me that after a year or
so having OPCODEDIR around that information isn't being picked up by
users, old and new.  If there already is a message in there, then
somehow making it more visible as suggested would help get people new
to csound5 to realize there is something there.

steven


On 9/15/05, Istvan Varga <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Steven Yi wrote:
>
> > Since OPCODEDIR and OPCODEDIR64 being set is coming up as an issue
> > over and over again, what does everyone think about displaying a
> > message to the user when they run Csound and it is not set, something
> > like:
>
> Actually, there is already a message with a second of delay to make it
> more noticeable, but it can be changed as you suggested, and perhaps
> it could be a fatal error instead of just a warning.
>
>
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>


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Re: No OPCODEDIR set message

Steven Yi
In reply to this post by Michael Gogins
I would say for this case, however, that not having OPCODEDIR set has
been the number one issue regarding csound5 to arise over the past
year, and would merit a very large warning.  Also, as large as the
message is, most of us won't ever even see it as I assume we all
already have it set.

steven


On 9/15/05, Michael Gogins <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I would prefer a less blatant message, please! It's too hard, over a long period of development, to figure out which messages are really more important than others, so let them all be the same size and agony level.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steven Yi <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sep 15, 2005 11:58 AM
> To: Csound-dev <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Cs-dev] No OPCODEDIR set message
>
> Hi All,
>
> Since OPCODEDIR and OPCODEDIR64 being set is coming up as an issue
> over and over again, what does everyone think about displaying a
> message to the user when they run Csound and it is not set, something
> like:
>
> ###############################################################
> # WARNING: OPCODEDIR IS NOT SET!
>                                 #
> # Csound requires this environment variable to be set to find it's
> opcode libraries.#
> # If It is not set, you may experience missing opcodes and audio/midi
> drivers.       #
> ###############################################################
>
> I would prefer something as loud as possible as the above, but a less
> bold message would be fine too.  Any objections?
>
> steven
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
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Re: No OPCODEDIR set message

Steven Yi
In reply to this post by jpff
As mentioned in reply to Istvan, I too don't think making this an
error would be necessary as it not having OPCODEDIR set doesn't
prevent Csound itself from working.  However, how do you feel about a
much larger and descriptive warning message as I had suggested?

steven



On 9/15/05, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

> NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
>
> I usually run without defining OPCODEDIR/OPCODEDIR64 and making that an
> error would be a large negative move.
>
> I also think that loading all plugins is the wrong approach, and leads
> to code bloat; but that argument is for another day.
>
> ==John ffitch
>
>
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Re: Ignore CsOptions (was: No OPCODEDIR set message)

Steven Yi
In reply to this post by David Akbari
Hi David,

I like this suggestion, as I think I would put it in my .csoundrc so I
could disable csoptions altogether. =)

steven


On 9/15/05, David Akbari <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Off topic, but does any facility exist at present to ignore all text in
> the <CsOptions> flag? like
>
> -+ignore_csopts=<boolean>
>
> ... i think this could be a really nice debugging feature....


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Re: No OPCODEDIR set message

Stephane Rollandin
In reply to this post by Istvan Varga
as I said earlier, I would better not have to set anything and still get
a possibility to set-up a csound-based distribution.

otherwise, I have to take care of giving environment variables for each
targetted patform, which is a real hassle.

I guess the point I want to make is to keep in mind that csound can be
just a part of a bigger system, so it should be as modulable as
possible. it is very good to have error messages, delays, etc for an
end-user to be warned that its installation is not complete; on the
other hand, for a developper using csound as an internal engine within a
musical system, there sould be a way to disable all of this.


regards,

Stef


Istvan Varga wrote:
> You can set OPCODEDIR and/or OPCODEDIR64 to ".", which is the same as
> the default, but without the annoying message and delay.
>
> Stéphane Rollandin wrote:
>
>> now that I think about it, it would be good to have a command-line
>> flag disabling the one-second delay :)
>



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Re: Ignore CsOptions

Istvan Varga
In reply to this post by Steven Yi
OK, I will add the option.

Steven Yi wrote:

> I like this suggestion, as I think I would put it in my .csoundrc so I
> could disable csoptions altogether. =)
>
> steven
 >
> On 9/15/05, David Akbari <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>Off topic, but does any facility exist at present to ignore all text in
>>the <CsOptions> flag? like
>>
>>-+ignore_csopts=<boolean>
>>
>>... i think this could be a really nice debugging feature....


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Re: No OPCODEDIR set message

Istvan Varga
In reply to this post by Stephane Rollandin
Stéphane Rollandin wrote:

> as I said earlier, I would better not have to set anything and still get
> a possibility to set-up a csound-based distribution.
>
> otherwise, I have to take care of giving environment variables for each
> targetted patform, which is a real hassle.
>
> I guess the point I want to make is to keep in mind that csound can be
> just a part of a bigger system, so it should be as modulable as
> possible. it is very good to have error messages, delays, etc for an
> end-user to be warned that its installation is not complete; on the
> other hand, for a developper using csound as an internal engine within a
> musical system, there sould be a way to disable all of this.

Well, if you can compile Csound yourself, then just comment out the
line 'csoundSleep(1000);' in Top/csmodule.c, and the delay will go
away. Also, a customized version of the command line front-end can
set environment variables before creating any instances of Csound
with csoundSetDefaultEnv() in a platform independent way.

However, not setting OPCODEDIR/OPCODEDIR64 is by far the most common
problem that is reported, and almost everyone using Csound 5 the first
time runs into this issue. So, it is more than reasonable to have an
easily noticeable warning (without the delay it would just scroll away
without even having a chance to see it), even if not a fatal error.


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