I'm really impressed!

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I'm really impressed!

Victor Lazzarini
I'm very impressed by csound 5 latency with portaudio ASIO. I set my
ASIO panel to the lowest latency and was able to run csound with
-b2 -B4. The latency sounds just like that of an outboard effects unit (ie
  I can't hear it). I ran a 32-band vocoder with 4th-order butterworths and
I didn't get a single dropout.

And this is with the MSVC build. I expect that the gcc version is faster, so
that it would support more number-crunching in realtime.

Now I am confident we have something beyond csound 4.23 in terms of
usability and performance (on Windows, I was already confident of that
on Linux).

Well done everyone. Particularly, Istvan.


Victor Lazzarini
Music Technology Laboratory
Music Department
National University of Ireland, Maynooth

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Re: I'm really impressed!

Iain Duncan
That is great to hear! Mad props from the csound massive. ;)

Iain

Victor Lazzarini wrote:

> I'm very impressed by csound 5 latency with portaudio ASIO. I set my
> ASIO panel to the lowest latency and was able to run csound with
> -b2 -B4. The latency sounds just like that of an outboard effects unit (ie
>  I can't hear it). I ran a 32-band vocoder with 4th-order butterworths and
> I didn't get a single dropout.
>
> And this is with the MSVC build. I expect that the gcc version is
> faster, so
> that it would support more number-crunching in realtime.
>
> Now I am confident we have something beyond csound 4.23 in terms of
> usability and performance (on Windows, I was already confident of that
> on Linux).
>
> Well done everyone. Particularly, Istvan.
>
>
> Victor Lazzarini
> Music Technology Laboratory
> Music Department
> National University of Ireland, Maynooth
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Re: I'm really impressed!

Victor Lazzarini
Well, I was not completely right. My vocoder seemed to be masking dropouts
with -b2 -B4. However, I can report great results & latency with -b256
-B512 and
the lowest ASIO latency setting.

This is with some changes to paBlocking.c & rtpa.c which I'm yet to commit
(tonight
I will hopefully). Still, it's very good and much better than 4.23 and up
there with
effects units.

Victor

At 10:35 05/07/2005, you wrote:

>That is great to hear! Mad props from the csound massive. ;)
>
>Iain
>
>Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>I'm very impressed by csound 5 latency with portaudio ASIO. I set my
>>ASIO panel to the lowest latency and was able to run csound with
>>-b2 -B4. The latency sounds just like that of an outboard effects unit (ie
>>  I can't hear it). I ran a 32-band vocoder with 4th-order butterworths and
>>I didn't get a single dropout.
>>And this is with the MSVC build. I expect that the gcc version is faster, so
>>that it would support more number-crunching in realtime.
>>Now I am confident we have something beyond csound 4.23 in terms of
>>usability and performance (on Windows, I was already confident of that
>>on Linux).
>>Well done everyone. Particularly, Istvan.
>>
>>Victor Lazzarini
>>Music Technology Laboratory
>>Music Department
>>National University of Ireland, Maynooth
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Victor Lazzarini
Music Technology Laboratory
Music Department
National University of Ireland, Maynooth

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Re: I'm really impressed!

Istvan Varga
Victor Lazzarini wrote:

> This is with some changes to paBlocking.c & rtpa.c which I'm yet to
> commit (tonight I will hopefully).

What kind of changes did you make ? Could you commit them now ?
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Re: I'm really impressed!

Victor Lazzarini
Unfortunately I can't, for two reasons: I want to test on OSX; and in my
university connection I can't do cvs commits from either windows or
OSX (I need tsocks which I can't get it to work with my ssh on windows and
can't get it full stop on OSX.) So I have to commit from home or from my
linux box. I might be able to do it from the linux machine, but I want to test
it with OSX first.

I can't remember all the changes, but the main one was to do with the locks,
which now are single, instead of double. This seems to be the right way of
doing things. Full-duplex is problematic otherwise.

Victor

At 12:38 05/07/2005, you wrote:
>Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>
>>This is with some changes to paBlocking.c & rtpa.c which I'm yet to
>>commit (tonight I will hopefully).
>
>What kind of changes did you make ? Could you commit them now ?
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Victor Lazzarini
Music Technology Laboratory
Music Department
National University of Ireland, Maynooth

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Re: I'm really impressed!

Istvan Varga
Victor Lazzarini wrote:

> I can't remember all the changes, but the main one was to do with the
> locks,
> which now are single, instead of double. This seems to be the right way of
> doing things. Full-duplex is problematic otherwise.

So you removed paLock but kept clientLock (assuming that the latter cannot be
removed because it is required for blocking) ? What will the stream callback
then do if there is no data yet for playback or record data was not yet processed ?
I am very interested in these changes. Can you post a zipped archive of the
changed files ?
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Re: I'm really impressed!

Chuckk Hubbard
In reply to this post by Victor Lazzarini
Awesome.

This reminds me of something I've wondered about from time to time.
What would you guys say the chances are that Csound and other
open-source wonders of the audio world will ever put the commercial
audio software people out of business?  It seems like they're trying
to grab up as much dough as they can before the tech becomes
commonplace, and their products also seem to be becoming more like
Csound, albeit with more intuitive graphic control, which in turn
seems to be getting more accessible with Csound.  I have no way to
gauge how brilliant their developers are compared to the Csound crew;
obviously they're not stupid, but maybe they're targeting a slightly
different audience?

-Chuckk

On 7/5/05, Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Well, I was not completely right. My vocoder seemed to be masking dropouts
> with -b2 -B4. However, I can report great results & latency with -b256
> -B512 and
> the lowest ASIO latency setting.
>
> This is with some changes to paBlocking.c & rtpa.c which I'm yet to commit
> (tonight
> I will hopefully). Still, it's very good and much better than 4.23 and up
> there with
> effects units.
>
> Victor
>
> At 10:35 05/07/2005, you wrote:
> >That is great to hear! Mad props from the csound massive. ;)
> >
> >Iain
> >
> >Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> >>I'm very impressed by csound 5 latency with portaudio ASIO. I set my
> >>ASIO panel to the lowest latency and was able to run csound with
> >>-b2 -B4. The latency sounds just like that of an outboard effects unit (ie
> >>  I can't hear it). I ran a 32-band vocoder with 4th-order butterworths and
> >>I didn't get a single dropout.
> >>And this is with the MSVC build. I expect that the gcc version is faster, so
> >>that it would support more number-crunching in realtime.
> >>Now I am confident we have something beyond csound 4.23 in terms of
> >>usability and performance (on Windows, I was already confident of that
> >>on Linux).
> >>Well done everyone. Particularly, Istvan.
> >>
> >>Victor Lazzarini
> >>Music Technology Laboratory
> >>Music Department
> >>National University of Ireland, Maynooth
> >--
> >Send bugs reports to this list.
> >To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
>
> Victor Lazzarini
> Music Technology Laboratory
> Music Department
> National University of Ireland, Maynooth
>
> --
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
>


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of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters."
-Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"
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Re: I'm really impressed!

David Akbari

On Jul 6, 2005, at 9:04 PM, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
>
> What would you guys say the chances are that Csound and other
> open-source wonders of the audio world will ever put the commercial
> audio software people out of business?

None. Most professional (commercial) musicians don't have the patience
to craft something completely by hand. They like fancy GUI's and
intuitive controls - so you can click blindly and still make a good
sound. That's what wins in this game; Csound is amazing because it
allows developers to access the ideas contained in the source code for
use / adaptation in other implementations. Rather than put the
commercial audio guys out of business, it seems (with Reaktor at least)
that they simply assimilate what is good about Csound in their own
implementations.

I think it's more accurate to think about Csound as a frontend for C
rather than an alternative to commercial apps - even though you can
integrate Csound directly with most commercial apps; the new OSC
opcodes also extend this functionality immensely, IMHO.

There is a difference between production and pedagogy. Csound is a
pedagogical gold mine, but is it always the best production tool?
Increasingly so, but we're still stretching to reach that star!


-David

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Re: I'm really impressed!

Richard M. Otero
In reply to this post by Chuckk Hubbard
Of course they're targeting a different audience:  the people who want
the programming done for them.  Everyone on this list already knows
that the fewer levels of abstraction you put between yourself and the
ones and zeroes, the more control you have.  But consequently, there is
a lot more room for error, and the lower level software requires a lot
more time to understand.

I suppose it's possible for Csound to replace software synthesis
applications like Reaktor or Tassman, but I see only two ways it'll
happen.  Either the average users of commercial software products will
suddenly decide they'd like to know a lot more about how the software
works or GUI-based emulations of the commercial apps will have to be
designed and made publicly available.

However, Dr. B has a number of good stories that tell of Csound slowly
making its way into the mainstream within the past few years - feature
films, pop records, etc.  So it seems that more and more well-known (to
the general public, at least) artists are learning and using Csound
because of the greater control it allows the composer/sound designer to
have.

-Rich

On Jul 6, 2005, at 9:04 PM, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:

> Awesome.
>
> This reminds me of something I've wondered about from time to time.
> What would you guys say the chances are that Csound and other
> open-source wonders of the audio world will ever put the commercial
> audio software people out of business?  It seems like they're trying
> to grab up as much dough as they can before the tech becomes
> commonplace, and their products also seem to be becoming more like
> Csound, albeit with more intuitive graphic control, which in turn
> seems to be getting more accessible with Csound.  I have no way to
> gauge how brilliant their developers are compared to the Csound crew;
> obviously they're not stupid, but maybe they're targeting a slightly
> different audience?
>
> -Chuckk
>
> On 7/5/05, Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Well, I was not completely right. My vocoder seemed to be masking
>> dropouts
>> with -b2 -B4. However, I can report great results & latency with -b256
>> -B512 and
>> the lowest ASIO latency setting.
>>
>> This is with some changes to paBlocking.c & rtpa.c which I'm yet to
>> commit
>> (tonight
>> I will hopefully). Still, it's very good and much better than 4.23
>> and up
>> there with
>> effects units.
>>
>> Victor
>>
>> At 10:35 05/07/2005, you wrote:
>>> That is great to hear! Mad props from the csound massive. ;)
>>>
>>> Iain
>>>
>>> Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>> I'm very impressed by csound 5 latency with portaudio ASIO. I set my
>>>> ASIO panel to the lowest latency and was able to run csound with
>>>> -b2 -B4. The latency sounds just like that of an outboard effects
>>>> unit (ie
>>>>  I can't hear it). I ran a 32-band vocoder with 4th-order
>>>> butterworths and
>>>> I didn't get a single dropout.
>>>> And this is with the MSVC build. I expect that the gcc version is
>>>> faster, so
>>>> that it would support more number-crunching in realtime.
>>>> Now I am confident we have something beyond csound 4.23 in terms of
>>>> usability and performance (on Windows, I was already confident of
>>>> that
>>>> on Linux).
>>>> Well done everyone. Particularly, Istvan.
>>>>
>>>> Victor Lazzarini
>>>> Music Technology Laboratory
>>>> Music Department
>>>> National University of Ireland, Maynooth
>>> --
>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>> To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
>>
>> Victor Lazzarini
>> Music Technology Laboratory
>> Music Department
>> National University of Ireland, Maynooth
>>
>> --
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
>>
>
>
> --
> "It is not when truth is dirty, but when it is shallow, that the lover
> of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters."
> -Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"
> --
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
>

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Re: I'm really impressed!

Chuckk Hubbard
On 7/6/05, Richard M. Otero <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Of course they're targeting a different audience:  the people who want
> the programming done for them.  Everyone on this list already knows
> that the fewer levels of abstraction you put between yourself and the
> ones and zeroes, the more control you have.  But consequently, there is
> a lot more room for error, and the lower level software requires a lot
> more time to understand.
>
> I suppose it's possible for Csound to replace software synthesis
> applications like Reaktor or Tassman, but I see only two ways it'll
> happen.  Either the average users of commercial software products will
> suddenly decide they'd like to know a lot more about how the software
> works or GUI-based emulations of the commercial apps will have to be
> designed and made publicly available.

That's what I'm thinking of.  With any technology, the number of
masters of it who are willing to toss their day-off ideas out for free
increases as it gets more popular.  So many front-ends for Csound.
Instrument catalogs too.  Like you say, it's extending and becoming
more compatible with other things and methods.  The only function I
can think of that lots of commercial apps have and Csound doesn't is
traditional music notation.  Within the next 25 years, who knows?
I've heard of Bill Gates including free programs with Windows that do
what other companies' programs do, cutting them out.
As far as people wanting simple methods, look at the success of the
DX7.  That thing's a pain to program.  But all you need is one
supernerd in the band and he'll do it for you (I love it, myself).
I also suspect that's the case with some of the mainstream uses of
Csound.  I was reading up on bt after Dr. B mentioned him, and I found
a reference where he said "working with my friend ____, who is a
Csound expert."  I'm sure it's the same with Reaktor, actually, where
the guy who does the programming is not the guy whose face you see on
the album cover.
I can't say whether I think it will happen, but part of me wants to
see Propellerheads and Native Instruments struggling.  The way they
divide everything up into 5 or 6 different programs so you have to buy
them all seems gratuitous.

-Chuckk

>
> However, Dr. B has a number of good stories that tell of Csound slowly
> making its way into the mainstream within the past few years - feature
> films, pop records, etc.  So it seems that more and more well-known (to
> the general public, at least) artists are learning and using Csound
> because of the greater control it allows the composer/sound designer to
> have.
>
> -Rich
>
> On Jul 6, 2005, at 9:04 PM, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
>
> > Awesome.
> >
> > This reminds me of something I've wondered about from time to time.
> > What would you guys say the chances are that Csound and other
> > open-source wonders of the audio world will ever put the commercial
> > audio software people out of business?  It seems like they're trying
> > to grab up as much dough as they can before the tech becomes
> > commonplace, and their products also seem to be becoming more like
> > Csound, albeit with more intuitive graphic control, which in turn
> > seems to be getting more accessible with Csound.  I have no way to
> > gauge how brilliant their developers are compared to the Csound crew;
> > obviously they're not stupid, but maybe they're targeting a slightly
> > different audience?
> >
> > -Chuckk
> >
> > On 7/5/05, Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Well, I was not completely right. My vocoder seemed to be masking
> >> dropouts
> >> with -b2 -B4. However, I can report great results & latency with -b256
> >> -B512 and
> >> the lowest ASIO latency setting.
> >>
> >> This is with some changes to paBlocking.c & rtpa.c which I'm yet to
> >> commit
> >> (tonight
> >> I will hopefully). Still, it's very good and much better than 4.23
> >> and up
> >> there with
> >> effects units.
> >>
> >> Victor
> >>
> >> At 10:35 05/07/2005, you wrote:
> >>> That is great to hear! Mad props from the csound massive. ;)
> >>>
> >>> Iain
> >>>
> >>> Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> >>>> I'm very impressed by csound 5 latency with portaudio ASIO. I set my
> >>>> ASIO panel to the lowest latency and was able to run csound with
> >>>> -b2 -B4. The latency sounds just like that of an outboard effects
> >>>> unit (ie
> >>>>  I can't hear it). I ran a 32-band vocoder with 4th-order
> >>>> butterworths and
> >>>> I didn't get a single dropout.
> >>>> And this is with the MSVC build. I expect that the gcc version is
> >>>> faster, so
> >>>> that it would support more number-crunching in realtime.
> >>>> Now I am confident we have something beyond csound 4.23 in terms of
> >>>> usability and performance (on Windows, I was already confident of
> >>>> that
> >>>> on Linux).
> >>>> Well done everyone. Particularly, Istvan.
> >>>>
> >>>> Victor Lazzarini
> >>>> Music Technology Laboratory
> >>>> Music Department
> >>>> National University of Ireland, Maynooth
> >>> --
> >>> Send bugs reports to this list.
> >>> To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
> >>
> >> Victor Lazzarini
> >> Music Technology Laboratory
> >> Music Department
> >> National University of Ireland, Maynooth
> >>
> >> --
> >> Send bugs reports to this list.
> >> To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > "It is not when truth is dirty, but when it is shallow, that the lover
> > of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters."
> > -Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"
> > --
> > Send bugs reports to this list.
> > To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
> >
>
> --
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>


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of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters."
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Re: I'm really impressed!

Chuckk Hubbard
In reply to this post by David Akbari
On 7/6/05, David Akbari <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Jul 6, 2005, at 9:04 PM, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
> >
> > What would you guys say the chances are that Csound and other
> > open-source wonders of the audio world will ever put the commercial
> > audio software people out of business?
>
> None. Most professional (commercial) musicians don't have the patience
> to craft something completely by hand. They like fancy GUI's and
> intuitive controls - so you can click blindly and still make a good
> sound. That's what wins in this game; Csound is amazing because it
> allows developers to access the ideas contained in the source code for
> use / adaptation in other implementations. Rather than put the
> commercial audio guys out of business, it seems (with Reaktor at least)
> that they simply assimilate what is good about Csound in their own
> implementations.

I've noticed that, but I suspect the biggest thing separating Reaktor
from Csound is toll-free support and documentation.  I don't imagine
too many people would be willing to devote the time to learn to use
Reaktor and not be interested in Csound too.
I agree Csound isn't always the best production tool, but I am
thinking "ever", as in maybe even 40 or 50 years from now.

Actually I'll bet piracy is a bigger threat to most of them than
Csound right now.

-Chuckk

>
> I think it's more accurate to think about Csound as a frontend for C
> rather than an alternative to commercial apps - even though you can
> integrate Csound directly with most commercial apps; the new OSC
> opcodes also extend this functionality immensely, IMHO.
>
> There is a difference between production and pedagogy. Csound is a
> pedagogical gold mine, but is it always the best production tool?
> Increasingly so, but we're still stretching to reach that star!
>
>
> -David
>
> --
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
>


--
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of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters."
-Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"
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Re: I'm really impressed!

Michael Gogins
In reply to this post by Victor Lazzarini
I wouldn't say either side is stupid, rather that both are reasonably smart at least sometimes.

But the purposes are different. Producers need to work in a hurry with an intuitive GUI, experimental composers need a language so they can experiment.

Perhaps in the end the two sides will converge -- something like Pro Tools or Reason with scripting of instruments and effects and pieces.

Regards,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Chuckk Hubbard <[hidden email]>
Sent: Jul 6, 2005 9:04 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Csnd] I'm really impressed!

Awesome.

This reminds me of something I've wondered about from time to time.
What would you guys say the chances are that Csound and other
open-source wonders of the audio world will ever put the commercial
audio software people out of business?  It seems like they're trying
to grab up as much dough as they can before the tech becomes
commonplace, and their products also seem to be becoming more like
Csound, albeit with more intuitive graphic control, which in turn
seems to be getting more accessible with Csound.  I have no way to
gauge how brilliant their developers are compared to the Csound crew;
obviously they're not stupid, but maybe they're targeting a slightly
different audience?

-Chuckk

On 7/5/05, Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Well, I was not completely right. My vocoder seemed to be masking dropouts
> with -b2 -B4. However, I can report great results & latency with -b256
> -B512 and
> the lowest ASIO latency setting.
>
> This is with some changes to paBlocking.c & rtpa.c which I'm yet to commit
> (tonight
> I will hopefully). Still, it's very good and much better than 4.23 and up
> there with
> effects units.
>
> Victor
>
> At 10:35 05/07/2005, you wrote:
> >That is great to hear! Mad props from the csound massive. ;)
> >
> >Iain
> >
> >Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> >>I'm very impressed by csound 5 latency with portaudio ASIO. I set my
> >>ASIO panel to the lowest latency and was able to run csound with
> >>-b2 -B4. The latency sounds just like that of an outboard effects unit (ie
> >>  I can't hear it). I ran a 32-band vocoder with 4th-order butterworths and
> >>I didn't get a single dropout.
> >>And this is with the MSVC build. I expect that the gcc version is faster, so
> >>that it would support more number-crunching in realtime.
> >>Now I am confident we have something beyond csound 4.23 in terms of
> >>usability and performance (on Windows, I was already confident of that
> >>on Linux).
> >>Well done everyone. Particularly, Istvan.
> >>
> >>Victor Lazzarini
> >>Music Technology Laboratory
> >>Music Department
> >>National University of Ireland, Maynooth
> >--
> >Send bugs reports to this list.
> >To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
>
> Victor Lazzarini
> Music Technology Laboratory
> Music Department
> National University of Ireland, Maynooth
>
> --
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
>


--
"It is not when truth is dirty, but when it is shallow, that the lover
of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters."
-Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"
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Send bugs reports to this list.
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Re: I'm really impressed!

Michael Rempel
The talk about using CSound for production got me thinking again.

One of the things I find could be helpful in CSound is a set of phase linear
filters.

Another thing is that it would be good if people could publish discussions
on how to map parameters for various opcodes and instruments. IE, dont just
publish a piece, but think about publishing an instrument. That means
'presets' and ftable mapped control ranges, probably always implemented as a
midi range. Midi controls mapped through macros in a seperate include file.

I almost had something like this ready for demo a while back when I suddenly
lost my hard drive. I didnt have presets figured out. Needs to be some kind
of file save / file load based on a midi control. I want it to work no mater
how the midi map is done.

Finally if we could do something of a pre-processor once the multi-instance
problem is solved, so that midi program change messages can load different
csound programs in Midi, then we would have a real time and producer
friendly CSound.

Michael Rempel

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Gogins [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 5:49 PM
To: [hidden email]; Chuckk Hubbard
Subject: Re: [Csnd] I'm really impressed!


I wouldn't say either side is stupid, rather that both are reasonably smart
at least sometimes.

But the purposes are different. Producers need to work in a hurry with an
intuitive GUI, experimental composers need a language so they can
experiment.

Perhaps in the end the two sides will converge -- something like Pro Tools
or Reason with scripting of instruments and effects and pieces.

Regards,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Chuckk Hubbard <[hidden email]>
Sent: Jul 6, 2005 9:04 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Csnd] I'm really impressed!

Awesome.

This reminds me of something I've wondered about from time to time.
What would you guys say the chances are that Csound and other
open-source wonders of the audio world will ever put the commercial
audio software people out of business?  It seems like they're trying
to grab up as much dough as they can before the tech becomes
commonplace, and their products also seem to be becoming more like
Csound, albeit with more intuitive graphic control, which in turn
seems to be getting more accessible with Csound.  I have no way to
gauge how brilliant their developers are compared to the Csound crew;
obviously they're not stupid, but maybe they're targeting a slightly
different audience?

-Chuckk

On 7/5/05, Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Well, I was not completely right. My vocoder seemed to be masking dropouts
> with -b2 -B4. However, I can report great results & latency with -b256
> -B512 and
> the lowest ASIO latency setting.
>
> This is with some changes to paBlocking.c & rtpa.c which I'm yet to commit
> (tonight
> I will hopefully). Still, it's very good and much better than 4.23 and up
> there with
> effects units.
>
> Victor
>
> At 10:35 05/07/2005, you wrote:
> >That is great to hear! Mad props from the csound massive. ;)
> >
> >Iain
> >
> >Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> >>I'm very impressed by csound 5 latency with portaudio ASIO. I set my
> >>ASIO panel to the lowest latency and was able to run csound with
> >>-b2 -B4. The latency sounds just like that of an outboard effects unit
(ie
> >>  I can't hear it). I ran a 32-band vocoder with 4th-order butterworths
and
> >>I didn't get a single dropout.
> >>And this is with the MSVC build. I expect that the gcc version is
faster, so

> >>that it would support more number-crunching in realtime.
> >>Now I am confident we have something beyond csound 4.23 in terms of
> >>usability and performance (on Windows, I was already confident of that
> >>on Linux).
> >>Well done everyone. Particularly, Istvan.
> >>
> >>Victor Lazzarini
> >>Music Technology Laboratory
> >>Music Department
> >>National University of Ireland, Maynooth
> >--
> >Send bugs reports to this list.
> >To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
>
> Victor Lazzarini
> Music Technology Laboratory
> Music Department
> National University of Ireland, Maynooth
>
> --
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
>


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of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters."
-Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"
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Re: I'm really impressed!

Erik Spjut
If you just need high-pass and low-pass with fixed cutoffs, check out
http://www.csounds.com/spjut/index.html . They are a set of phase
linear fir filters that work with cvanal and convolve, or with dconv.

At 05:14 PM 7/7/2005, you wrote:
>The talk about using CSound for production got me thinking again.
>
>One of the things I find could be helpful in CSound is a set of phase linear
>filters.
>
>--
>Send bugs reports to this list.
>To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]

Prof. R. Erik Spjut (spyoot rhymes with cute)
Engineering Department, Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
[hidden email]   Ph. (909) 607-3890  Fax (909) 621-8967

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Re: I'm really impressed!

Gabriel Maldonado-2
In reply to this post by Richard M. Otero
There is absolutely no prohibition to use both Csound and Reaktor (even
at the same time). Now Csound can act as a VST host that can embed
Reaktor itself. This opens a double-face system, offering the advnatages
of both programs: an easy and rapid way to assemble blocks graphically
(reaktor) and the possibility to deploy special, specific and unusual
compositional and performance-related paradigms (Csound).

Personally I particularry enjoy to integrate pop-oriented and
easy-to-program VST synths (such as NI FM7, whose synthesis method is
quite conventional, but that provides an exceptional user interface to
create new programs) with the versatile control and processing offered
by csound treated as a container of several VST plugins.

Actually, all VST plugins could be virtually emulated by Csound
instruments, but the commercial synths offer a very user-friendly and
ready-to-use intuitive intefaces that help to create sounds without
stopping the creative flow.

Gabriel


Richard M. Otero wrote:

> Of course they're targeting a different audience:  the people who want
> the programming done for them.  Everyone on this list already knows that
> the fewer levels of abstraction you put between yourself and the ones
> and zeroes, the more control you have.  But consequently, there is a lot
> more room for error, and the lower level software requires a lot more
> time to understand.
>
> I suppose it's possible for Csound to replace software synthesis
> applications like Reaktor or Tassman, but I see only two ways it'll
> happen.  Either the average users of commercial software products will
> suddenly decide they'd like to know a lot more about how the software
> works or GUI-based emulations of the commercial apps will have to be
> designed and made publicly available.
>
> However, Dr. B has a number of good stories that tell of Csound slowly
> making its way into the mainstream within the past few years - feature
> films, pop records, etc.  So it seems that more and more well-known (to
> the general public, at least) artists are learning and using Csound
> because of the greater control it allows the composer/sound designer to
> have.
>
> -Rich
>
> On Jul 6, 2005, at 9:04 PM, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
>
>> Awesome.
>>
>> This reminds me of something I've wondered about from time to time.
>> What would you guys say the chances are that Csound and other
>> open-source wonders of the audio world will ever put the commercial
>> audio software people out of business?  It seems like they're trying
>> to grab up as much dough as they can before the tech becomes
>> commonplace, and their products also seem to be becoming more like
>> Csound, albeit with more intuitive graphic control, which in turn
>> seems to be getting more accessible with Csound.  I have no way to
>> gauge how brilliant their developers are compared to the Csound crew;
>> obviously they're not stupid, but maybe they're targeting a slightly
>> different audience?
>>
>> -Chuckk
>>
>> On 7/5/05, Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I was not completely right. My vocoder seemed to be masking
>>> dropouts
>>> with -b2 -B4. However, I can report great results & latency with -b256
>>> -B512 and
>>> the lowest ASIO latency setting.
>>>
>>> This is with some changes to paBlocking.c & rtpa.c which I'm yet to
>>> commit
>>> (tonight
>>> I will hopefully). Still, it's very good and much better than 4.23
>>> and up
>>> there with
>>> effects units.
>>>
>>> Victor
>>>
>>> At 10:35 05/07/2005, you wrote:
>>>
>>>> That is great to hear! Mad props from the csound massive. ;)
>>>>
>>>> Iain
>>>>
>>>> Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm very impressed by csound 5 latency with portaudio ASIO. I set my
>>>>> ASIO panel to the lowest latency and was able to run csound with
>>>>> -b2 -B4. The latency sounds just like that of an outboard effects
>>>>> unit (ie
>>>>>  I can't hear it). I ran a 32-band vocoder with 4th-order
>>>>> butterworths and
>>>>> I didn't get a single dropout.
>>>>> And this is with the MSVC build. I expect that the gcc version is
>>>>> faster, so
>>>>> that it would support more number-crunching in realtime.
>>>>> Now I am confident we have something beyond csound 4.23 in terms of
>>>>> usability and performance (on Windows, I was already confident of that
>>>>> on Linux).
>>>>> Well done everyone. Particularly, Istvan.
>>>>>
>>>>> Victor Lazzarini
>>>>> Music Technology Laboratory
>>>>> Music Department
>>>>> National University of Ireland, Maynooth
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>> To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
>>>
>>>
>>> Victor Lazzarini
>>> Music Technology Laboratory
>>> Music Department
>>> National University of Ireland, Maynooth
>>>
>>> --
>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>> To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "It is not when truth is dirty, but when it is shallow, that the lover
>> of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters."
>> -Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"
>> --
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
>>
>

--
Gabriel Maldonado
http://csounds.com/maldonado
--
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Re: I'm really impressed!

Chuckk Hubbard
My first thought is, how long will it be until someone emulates those
instruments with Csound?  And as soon as someone does and decides to
share it...  But on the other hand, even if someone programmed the
necessary interfaces, I get the feeling programs like FM7 work faster
because they are dedicated.  I don't understand the architectures well
enough to say for sure, but it seems like Csound gets burdened when I
try to control more than a few things in real-time.  I tried to set up
slider32 to control 4 fof UG's, so i could hear how all of the
parameters affected the sound, but no combination of -b, -B, -d, and
ksmps could get it to catch up.  Reason 3.0's Combinator option makes
it possible to condense the processing of any number of units into
one, freeing up CPU.  I guess UDO's in Csound are the same idea?
Maybe I should look into them.

-Chuckk


On 7/8/05, Gabriel Maldonado <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There is absolutely no prohibition to use both Csound and Reaktor (even
> at the same time). Now Csound can act as a VST host that can embed
> Reaktor itself. This opens a double-face system, offering the advnatages
> of both programs: an easy and rapid way to assemble blocks graphically
> (reaktor) and the possibility to deploy special, specific and unusual
> compositional and performance-related paradigms (Csound).
>
> Personally I particularry enjoy to integrate pop-oriented and
> easy-to-program VST synths (such as NI FM7, whose synthesis method is
> quite conventional, but that provides an exceptional user interface to
> create new programs) with the versatile control and processing offered
> by csound treated as a container of several VST plugins.
>
> Actually, all VST plugins could be virtually emulated by Csound
> instruments, but the commercial synths offer a very user-friendly and
> ready-to-use intuitive intefaces that help to create sounds without
> stopping the creative flow.
>
> Gabriel
>
>
> Richard M. Otero wrote:
> > Of course they're targeting a different audience:  the people who want
> > the programming done for them.  Everyone on this list already knows that
> > the fewer levels of abstraction you put between yourself and the ones
> > and zeroes, the more control you have.  But consequently, there is a lot
> > more room for error, and the lower level software requires a lot more
> > time to understand.
> >
> > I suppose it's possible for Csound to replace software synthesis
> > applications like Reaktor or Tassman, but I see only two ways it'll
> > happen.  Either the average users of commercial software products will
> > suddenly decide they'd like to know a lot more about how the software
> > works or GUI-based emulations of the commercial apps will have to be
> > designed and made publicly available.
> >
> > However, Dr. B has a number of good stories that tell of Csound slowly
> > making its way into the mainstream within the past few years - feature
> > films, pop records, etc.  So it seems that more and more well-known (to
> > the general public, at least) artists are learning and using Csound
> > because of the greater control it allows the composer/sound designer to
> > have.
> >
> > -Rich
> >
> > On Jul 6, 2005, at 9:04 PM, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
> >
> >> Awesome.
> >>
> >> This reminds me of something I've wondered about from time to time.
> >> What would you guys say the chances are that Csound and other
> >> open-source wonders of the audio world will ever put the commercial
> >> audio software people out of business?  It seems like they're trying
> >> to grab up as much dough as they can before the tech becomes
> >> commonplace, and their products also seem to be becoming more like
> >> Csound, albeit with more intuitive graphic control, which in turn
> >> seems to be getting more accessible with Csound.  I have no way to
> >> gauge how brilliant their developers are compared to the Csound crew;
> >> obviously they're not stupid, but maybe they're targeting a slightly
> >> different audience?
> >>
> >> -Chuckk
> >>
> >> On 7/5/05, Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Well, I was not completely right. My vocoder seemed to be masking
> >>> dropouts
> >>> with -b2 -B4. However, I can report great results & latency with -b256
> >>> -B512 and
> >>> the lowest ASIO latency setting.
> >>>
> >>> This is with some changes to paBlocking.c & rtpa.c which I'm yet to
> >>> commit
> >>> (tonight
> >>> I will hopefully). Still, it's very good and much better than 4.23
> >>> and up
> >>> there with
> >>> effects units.
> >>>
> >>> Victor
> >>>
> >>> At 10:35 05/07/2005, you wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> That is great to hear! Mad props from the csound massive. ;)
> >>>>
> >>>> Iain
> >>>>
> >>>> Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I'm very impressed by csound 5 latency with portaudio ASIO. I set my
> >>>>> ASIO panel to the lowest latency and was able to run csound with
> >>>>> -b2 -B4. The latency sounds just like that of an outboard effects
> >>>>> unit (ie
> >>>>>  I can't hear it). I ran a 32-band vocoder with 4th-order
> >>>>> butterworths and
> >>>>> I didn't get a single dropout.
> >>>>> And this is with the MSVC build. I expect that the gcc version is
> >>>>> faster, so
> >>>>> that it would support more number-crunching in realtime.
> >>>>> Now I am confident we have something beyond csound 4.23 in terms of
> >>>>> usability and performance (on Windows, I was already confident of that
> >>>>> on Linux).
> >>>>> Well done everyone. Particularly, Istvan.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Victor Lazzarini
> >>>>> Music Technology Laboratory
> >>>>> Music Department
> >>>>> National University of Ireland, Maynooth
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
> >>>> To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Victor Lazzarini
> >>> Music Technology Laboratory
> >>> Music Department
> >>> National University of Ireland, Maynooth
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Send bugs reports to this list.
> >>> To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> "It is not when truth is dirty, but when it is shallow, that the lover
> >> of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters."
> >> -Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"
> >> --
> >> Send bugs reports to this list.
> >> To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
> >>
> >
>
> --
> Gabriel Maldonado
> http://csounds.com/maldonado
> --
> --
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
>


--
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of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters."
-Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"
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Re: I'm really impressed!

Anthony Kozar
In reply to this post by Erik Spjut
Hi Erik,

This set of filters is a really great resource for the community!
Unfortunately, the last time I checked, the hp_float.zip file was corrupt
and could not be decompressed.  Could you check this please?

Thanks!  :)

Anthony Kozar
[hidden email]
http://akozar.spymac.net/


On 7/7/05 9:34 PM, Erik Spjut <[hidden email]> etched in stone:

> If you just need high-pass and low-pass with fixed cutoffs, check out
> http://www.csounds.com/spjut/index.html . They are a set of phase
> linear fir filters that work with cvanal and convolve, or with dconv.

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CSound FIR filters

Erik Spjut
I just downloaded them and decompressed and they seemed just fine. If  
you have additional problems, give me some details.

On Jul 8, 2005, at 10:51 AM, Anthony Kozar wrote:

> Hi Erik,
>
> This set of filters is a really great resource for the community!
> Unfortunately, the last time I checked, the hp_float.zip file was  
> corrupt
> and could not be decompressed.  Could you check this please?
>
> Thanks!  :)
>
> Anthony Kozar
> [hidden email]
> http://akozar.spymac.net/
>
>
> On 7/7/05 9:34 PM, Erik Spjut <[hidden email]> etched in stone:
>
>
>> If you just need high-pass and low-pass with fixed cutoffs, check out
>> http://www.csounds.com/spjut/index.html . They are a set of phase
>> linear fir filters that work with cvanal and convolve, or with dconv.
>>
>
> --
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email to [hidden email]
>

----
Prof. R. Erik Spjut (spyoot rhymes with cute)
Engineering Department, Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
[hidden email]   Ph. (909) 607-3890  Fax (909) 621-8967


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Re: CSound FIR filters

Anthony Kozar
Yes, it worked for me this time too.  Sorry, I think the download got
interrupted or something the first time I tried and I did not notice.

Thanks!

Anthony

On 7/8/05 2:08 PM, Erik Spjut <[hidden email]> etched in stone:

> I just downloaded them and decompressed and they seemed just fine. If
> you have additional problems, give me some details.

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Re: CSound FIR filters

Michael Rempel
I dont fully understand the math here, but could we do a biquad front end
for the usual parametric EQs? I dont know the math to create these things,
but I understand that it invoves a standard filter followed by a phase
compensation filter in iir world. I also understand there is a difference
between phase linear, and minimum phase, whos parameters differ for reasons
having to do with starting impulses. I have often wondered if an impulse
detector could noiselessly switch to minimum phase, and then migrate to
linear in the sustain portion of the sound.

Also it might be enough to create banks that center on the traditional even
tempered scale notes, and 1db steps. My Yamaha 01V mixer has parametric EQs
set up this way. Yamaha's newer 01V96 has what they call type II filters
which sound close to minimum phase to me. I would love something as
versatile as this for the csound community.

If you know the method, but dont have the patience to create it please drop
me a note, I would love to do it, and I know it is a tedious job.

Michael Rempel

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Kozar [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 1:45 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Csnd] CSound FIR filters


Yes, it worked for me this time too.  Sorry, I think the download got
interrupted or something the first time I tried and I did not notice.

Thanks!

Anthony

On 7/8/05 2:08 PM, Erik Spjut <[hidden email]> etched in stone:

> I just downloaded them and decompressed and they seemed just fine. If
> you have additional problems, give me some details.

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