[Csnd] enriching wave-harmonics (west coast style)

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[Csnd] enriching wave-harmonics (west coast style)

Jeanette C.
Hey hey,
I've wondered how to create harmonically rich waveforms from a very basic one.
I have general notions. So more precisely:
basis: sine or triangle
goal: a waveform with either odd, even or all harmonics

The inspiration for this thought is the Make Noise 0-Coast synth:
Intro by Make Noise:
youtu.be/hUGLQkF-dAA
More detailed review by Sonic State:
youtu.be/tsvDAAgtmto
Product page at Make Noise:
http://www.makenoisemusic.com/synthesizers/ohcoast

In their terminology I'm wondering how to emulate the overtone circuit. A
proper search term on the involved techniques might already be helpful, since
my searches so far have been too general, resulting in articles completely
beside the point.

Thanks for any help and best wishes,

Jeanette

--------
  * Website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
  * SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/jeanette_c
  * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
  * GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c
  * Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeanette_c_s

If there's nothing missing in my life
Then why do these tears come at night <3
(Britney Spears)

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Re: [Csnd] enriching wave-harmonics (west coast style)

Tarmo Johannes-3
Hi,

One wonderful way is to use a sine tone with amplitude 1 and then
chebyshevpoly, where the k1, k2 etc control the amplitude of next harmonics.
http://www.csounds.com/manual/html/chebyshevpoly.html
 If you need harmonic spectre, otherwise I would say different FM
manipulations give rich timbre with very little cost.


My two cents, not knowin so much about inner world of synthesis in fact...

tarmo


On teisipäev, 29. mai 2018 21:31.46 EEST you wrote:

> Hey hey,
> I've wondered how to create harmonically rich waveforms from a very basic
> one. I have general notions. So more precisely:
> basis: sine or triangle
> goal: a waveform with either odd, even or all harmonics
>
> The inspiration for this thought is the Make Noise 0-Coast synth:
> Intro by Make Noise:
> youtu.be/hUGLQkF-dAA
> More detailed review by Sonic State:
> youtu.be/tsvDAAgtmto
> Product page at Make Noise:
> http://www.makenoisemusic.com/synthesizers/ohcoast
>
> In their terminology I'm wondering how to emulate the overtone circuit. A
> proper search term on the involved techniques might already be helpful,
> since my searches so far have been too general, resulting in articles
> completely beside the point.
>
> Thanks for any help and best wishes,
>
> Jeanette
>
> --------
>   * Website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
>   * SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/jeanette_c
>   * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
>   * GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c
>   * Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeanette_c_s
>
> If there's nothing missing in my life
> Then why do these tears come at night <3
> (Britney Spears)
>
> Csound mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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Re: [Csnd] enriching wave-harmonics (west coast style)

zappfinger
In reply to this post by Jeanette C.
What I understand is that there is one oscillator producing 3 waveforms:
the base sine or triangle and a triangle and a square wave that can be
mixed to form any combination of even or odd harmonics. It looks like
the two sub oscillators could do ring modulation or FM also.
So there is no fancy circuit that produces overtones from a sine or
triangle. The idea is nice and could be simulated using Csound fairly easy.

Richard


On 29/05/18 20:31, Jeanette C. wrote:

> Hey hey,
> I've wondered how to create harmonically rich waveforms from a very
> basic one. I have general notions. So more precisely:
> basis: sine or triangle
> goal: a waveform with either odd, even or all harmonics
>
> The inspiration for this thought is the Make Noise 0-Coast synth:
> Intro by Make Noise:
> youtu.be/hUGLQkF-dAA
> More detailed review by Sonic State:
> youtu.be/tsvDAAgtmto
> Product page at Make Noise:
> http://www.makenoisemusic.com/synthesizers/ohcoast
>
> In their terminology I'm wondering how to emulate the overtone
> circuit. A proper search term on the involved techniques might already
> be helpful, since my searches so far have been too general, resulting
> in articles completely beside the point.
>
> Thanks for any help and best wishes,
>
> Jeanette
>
> --------
>  * Website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
>  * SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/jeanette_c
>  * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
>  * GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c
>  * Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeanette_c_s
>
> If there's nothing missing in my life
> Then why do these tears come at night <3
> (Britney Spears)
>
> Csound mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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Re: [Csnd] enriching wave-harmonics (west coast style)

Jeanette C.
Hi Richard and Tarmo,
May 29 2018, Richard has written:

> What I understand is that there is one oscillator producing 3 waveforms: the
> base sine or triangle and a triangle and a square wave that can be mixed to
> form any combination of even or odd harmonics. It looks like the two sub
> oscillators could do ring modulation or FM also.
Hm, ringmod is a possibility. There is an FM circuit anyway, so maybe
that too is involved. Thanks for the idea, I'll give that a try.
...

Best wishes,

Jeanette

--------
  * Website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
  * SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/jeanette_c
  * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
  * GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c
  * Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeanette_c_s

If there's nothing missing in my life
Then why do these tears come at night <3
(Britney Spears)

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Re: [Csnd] enriching wave-harmonics (west coast style)

JTG III
Not actually sure about the 0-coast specifically, but generally west coast synthesis tends to use wavefolding to add harmonics to simple waveforms. You have to take care when implementing wavefolding in the digital domain to avoid excessive aliasing.  There's been some recent work on emulating the wavefolder from the  buchla 259 and the middle section of the Serge triple wavefolder, but at least the 259 emulation relies on the poly BLAMP technique to reduce the aliasing, and I couldn't figure out how to do it properly myself. You can often achieve a similar result using waveshaping with chebyshev polynomials, and then you can control the precise distribution of harmonics, provided you're using a sine wave as your source, and so with some care avoid aliasing altogether. 

On May 29, 2018 4:33 PM, "Jeanette C." <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Richard and Tarmo,
May 29 2018, Richard has written:

What I understand is that there is one oscillator producing 3 waveforms: the base sine or triangle and a triangle and a square wave that can be mixed to form any combination of even or odd harmonics. It looks like the two sub oscillators could do ring modulation or FM also.
Hm, ringmod is a possibility. There is an FM circuit anyway, so maybe
that too is involved. Thanks for the idea, I'll give that a try.
...

Best wishes,

Jeanette

--------
 * Website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
 * SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/jeanette_c
 * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
 * GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c
 * Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeanette_c_s

If there's nothing missing in my life
Then why do these tears come at night <3
(Britney Spears)

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Re: [Csnd] enriching wave-harmonics (west coast style)

hlolli
you could try generateing bunch of ftgen 10 (increasing in partials complexity) and find oscillator with kfn parameter (or table:a), and switch the waveform by iterateing over bunch of different tables numbers

On 30 May 2018 at 17:26, JTG III <[hidden email]> wrote:
Not actually sure about the 0-coast specifically, but generally west coast synthesis tends to use wavefolding to add harmonics to simple waveforms. You have to take care when implementing wavefolding in the digital domain to avoid excessive aliasing.  There's been some recent work on emulating the wavefolder from the  buchla 259 and the middle section of the Serge triple wavefolder, but at least the 259 emulation relies on the poly BLAMP technique to reduce the aliasing, and I couldn't figure out how to do it properly myself. You can often achieve a similar result using waveshaping with chebyshev polynomials, and then you can control the precise distribution of harmonics, provided you're using a sine wave as your source, and so with some care avoid aliasing altogether. 

On May 29, 2018 4:33 PM, "Jeanette C." <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Richard and Tarmo,
May 29 2018, Richard has written:

What I understand is that there is one oscillator producing 3 waveforms: the base sine or triangle and a triangle and a square wave that can be mixed to form any combination of even or odd harmonics. It looks like the two sub oscillators could do ring modulation or FM also.
Hm, ringmod is a possibility. There is an FM circuit anyway, so maybe
that too is involved. Thanks for the idea, I'll give that a try.
...

Best wishes,

Jeanette

--------
 * Website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
 * SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/jeanette_c
 * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
 * GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c
 * Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeanette_c_s

If there's nothing missing in my life
Then why do these tears come at night <3
(Britney Spears)

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Re: [Csnd] enriching wave-harmonics (west coast style)

Bill Alves
In reply to this post by JTG III
Intrigued by this method, I coded up the following simple demonstration using the mirror opcode. However, the antialiasing method as I understand it involves oversampling, and I don’t know how to do this in Csound. I welcome any other suggestions.

<CsoundSynthesizer>
<CsOptions>
</CsOptions>
<CsInstruments>

0dbfs = 1

instr 10
; *** wavefolding instrument ***
; p4=amp, p5=pch, p6='amount' of folding
; folding increases in triangular envelope over life of note
ifreq = cpspch(p5)
iamp = p4
kmenv linseg 1,p3/2,1/p6,p3/2,1
kaenv linseg 0,0.1,iamp,p3-0.2,iamp,0.1,0
asig oscil 1,ifreq
aout mirror asig,-1*kmenv,kmenv
out aout*kaenv/kmenv
endin

</CsInstruments>
<CsScore>
i10 0 10 0.5 8.00 10
</CsScore>
</CsoundSynthesizer>

On May 30, 2018, at 8:26 AM, JTG III <[hidden email]> wrote:

Not actually sure about the 0-coast specifically, but generally west coast synthesis tends to use wavefolding to add harmonics to simple waveforms. You have to take care when implementing wavefolding in the digital domain to avoid excessive aliasing.  There's been some recent work on emulating the wavefolder from the  buchla 259 and the middle section of the Serge triple wavefolder, but at least the 259 emulation relies on the poly BLAMP technique to reduce the aliasing, and I couldn't figure out how to do it properly myself. You can often achieve a similar result using waveshaping with chebyshev polynomials, and then you can control the precise distribution of harmonics, provided you're using a sine wave as your source, and so with some care avoid aliasing altogether. 

On May 29, 2018 4:33 PM, "Jeanette C." <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Richard and Tarmo,
May 29 2018, Richard has written:

What I understand is that there is one oscillator producing 3 waveforms: the base sine or triangle and a triangle and a square wave that can be mixed to form any combination of even or odd harmonics. It looks like the two sub oscillators could do ring modulation or FM also.
Hm, ringmod is a possibility. There is an FM circuit anyway, so maybe
that too is involved. Thanks for the idea, I'll give that a try.
...

Best wishes,

Jeanette

--------
 * Website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
 * SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/jeanette_c
 * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
 * GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c
 * Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeanette_c_s

If there's nothing missing in my life
Then why do these tears come at night <3
(Britney Spears)

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Bill Alves
Professor of Music, The Claremont Colleges
Harvey Mudd College
301 Platt Blvd. Claremont CA 91711
http://pages.hmc.edu/alves/
http://www.billalves.com/

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Re: [Csnd] enriching wave-harmonics (west coast style)

Doctor B
nice example

_____________________________________________
Dr. Richard Boulanger
Professor of Electronic Production and Design
Professional Writing and Music Technology Division
Berklee College of Music
______________________________________________
President of Boulanger Labs - http://boulangerlabs.com
Author & Editor of The Csound Book - http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/csound-book
Author & Editor of The Audio Programming Book - http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/audio-programming-book
______________________________________________
about: 
http://www.boulangerlabs.com/#about
about: http://www.csounds.com/community/developers/dr-richard-boulanger/
music: http://www.csounds.com/community/developers/dr-richard-boulanger/dr-richard-boulanger-music/

______________________________________________
email: [hidden email]
facebook: https://www.facebook.com/richard.boulanger.58

On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 1:59 PM, Bill Alves <[hidden email]> wrote:
Intrigued by this method, I coded up the following simple demonstration using the mirror opcode. However, the antialiasing method as I understand it involves oversampling, and I don’t know how to do this in Csound. I welcome any other suggestions.

<CsoundSynthesizer>
<CsOptions>
</CsOptions>
<CsInstruments>

0dbfs = 1

instr 10
; *** wavefolding instrument ***
; p4=amp, p5=pch, p6='amount' of folding
; folding increases in triangular envelope over life of note
ifreq = cpspch(p5)
iamp = p4
kmenv linseg 1,p3/2,1/p6,p3/2,1
kaenv linseg 0,0.1,iamp,p3-0.2,iamp,0.1,0
asig oscil 1,ifreq
aout mirror asig,-1*kmenv,kmenv
out aout*kaenv/kmenv
endin

</CsInstruments>
<CsScore>
i10 0 10 0.5 8.00 10
</CsScore>
</CsoundSynthesizer>

On May 30, 2018, at 8:26 AM, JTG III <[hidden email]> wrote:

Not actually sure about the 0-coast specifically, but generally west coast synthesis tends to use wavefolding to add harmonics to simple waveforms. You have to take care when implementing wavefolding in the digital domain to avoid excessive aliasing.  There's been some recent work on emulating the wavefolder from the  buchla 259 and the middle section of the Serge triple wavefolder, but at least the 259 emulation relies on the poly BLAMP technique to reduce the aliasing, and I couldn't figure out how to do it properly myself. You can often achieve a similar result using waveshaping with chebyshev polynomials, and then you can control the precise distribution of harmonics, provided you're using a sine wave as your source, and so with some care avoid aliasing altogether. 

On May 29, 2018 4:33 PM, "Jeanette C." <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Richard and Tarmo,
May 29 2018, Richard has written:

What I understand is that there is one oscillator producing 3 waveforms: the base sine or triangle and a triangle and a square wave that can be mixed to form any combination of even or odd harmonics. It looks like the two sub oscillators could do ring modulation or FM also.
Hm, ringmod is a possibility. There is an FM circuit anyway, so maybe
that too is involved. Thanks for the idea, I'll give that a try.
...

Best wishes,

Jeanette

--------
 * Website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
 * SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/jeanette_c
 * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
 * GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c
 * Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeanette_c_s

If there's nothing missing in my life
Then why do these tears come at night <3
(Britney Spears)

Csound mailing list
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Bill Alves
Professor of Music, The Claremont Colleges
Harvey Mudd College
301 Platt Blvd. Claremont CA 91711
http://pages.hmc.edu/alves/
http://www.billalves.com/

Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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Re: [Csnd] enriching wave-harmonics (west coast style)

genell
In reply to this post by hlolli
Just a thought, couldn’t you use the tabmorph family of opcodes for something like that? Maybe it would mean smoother transitions?

Regards,
Anders

30 maj 2018 kl. 19:03 skrev Hlöðver Sigurðsson <[hidden email]>:

you could try generateing bunch of ftgen 10 (increasing in partials complexity) and find oscillator with kfn parameter (or table:a), and switch the waveform by iterateing over bunch of different tables numbers

On 30 May 2018 at 17:26, JTG III <[hidden email]> wrote:
Not actually sure about the 0-coast specifically, but generally west coast synthesis tends to use wavefolding to add harmonics to simple waveforms. You have to take care when implementing wavefolding in the digital domain to avoid excessive aliasing.  There's been some recent work on emulating the wavefolder from the  buchla 259 and the middle section of the Serge triple wavefolder, but at least the 259 emulation relies on the poly BLAMP technique to reduce the aliasing, and I couldn't figure out how to do it properly myself. You can often achieve a similar result using waveshaping with chebyshev polynomials, and then you can control the precise distribution of harmonics, provided you're using a sine wave as your source, and so with some care avoid aliasing altogether. 

On May 29, 2018 4:33 PM, "Jeanette C." <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Richard and Tarmo,
May 29 2018, Richard has written:

What I understand is that there is one oscillator producing 3 waveforms: the base sine or triangle and a triangle and a square wave that can be mixed to form any combination of even or odd harmonics. It looks like the two sub oscillators could do ring modulation or FM also.
Hm, ringmod is a possibility. There is an FM circuit anyway, so maybe
that too is involved. Thanks for the idea, I'll give that a try.
...

Best wishes,

Jeanette

--------
 * Website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
 * SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/jeanette_c
 * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
 * GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c
 * Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeanette_c_s

If there's nothing missing in my life
Then why do these tears come at night <3
(Britney Spears)

Csound mailing list
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Re: [Csnd] enriching wave-harmonics (west coast style)

luis jure
In reply to this post by Bill Alves
el 2018-05-30 a las 10:59 Bill Alves escribió:

> it involves oversampling, and I don’t know how to do this in Csound.

is there a way to do oversampling in csound?



--

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Re: [Csnd] enriching wave-harmonics (west coast style)

Victor Lazzarini-2
Since you can process sample by sample, code can be written in UDOs to oversample.
A simple example is http://www.csounds.com/udo/displayOpcode.php?opcode_id=32,
but I suppsoe more elaborate oversampling can be implemented using similar
principles.
========================
Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy,
Maynooth University,
Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
Tel: 00 353 7086936
Fax: 00 353 1 7086952

> On 31 May 2018, at 12:49, luis jure <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> el 2018-05-30 a las 10:59 Bill Alves escribió:
>
>> it involves oversampling, and I don’t know how to do this in Csound.
>
> is there a way to do oversampling in csound?
>
>
>
> --
>
> Csound mailing list
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