[Csnd] dust docs maybe mistake

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[Csnd] dust docs maybe mistake

Anton Kholomiov
The docs says

Generates random impulses from 0 to 1.
kres dust kamp, kdensity

kdensity -- average number of impulses per second.
But when I try it. It seems that the kdensity is a number 
of impulses per minute. It generates impulses at much slower
rate than expected.
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Re: [Csnd] dust docs maybe mistake

jpff
Looks like per second when I run the manual example

On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Anton Kholomiov wrote:

> The docs says
>
> Generates random impulses from 0 to 1.
>
> kres dust kamp, kdensity
> kdensity -- average number of impulses per second.
>
>
> But when I try it. It seems that the kdensity is a number
> of impulses per minute. It generates impulses at much slower
> rate than expected.
> Csound mailing list [hidden email]
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> be posted here
>

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Re: [Csnd] dust docs maybe mistake

Anton Kholomiov
Can you try out my example? It uses dust as trigger for events.
I use two lines to compare the rate of events:

line
23     ; ktrig  metro 2
24     ktrig  dust 1, 2

We can comment one or another to compare the rates.
My guess that the rate of events should be the same (2 per second)
but in the dust case the events should happen not so evenly and out of tempo.
But we can hear it's not the happening. The `dust` case produces much less evenets.

2017-03-16 18:21 GMT+03:00 jpff <[hidden email]>:
Looks like per second when I run the manual example


On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Anton Kholomiov wrote:

The docs says

Generates random impulses from 0 to 1.

kres dust kamp, kdensity
kdensity -- average number of impulses per second.


But when I try it. It seems that the kdensity is a number of impulses per minute. It generates impulses at much slower
rate than expected.
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Re: [Csnd] dust docs maybe mistake

jpff
therate depends on kr as well.  Your example generates 15 events in 100
Change ksmps to 1 and you get 400 in 100s, about 32 ties more. So the manual
is incorrect as it stands but the truth is complex.  Will try to undestand
the code
==John

On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, Anton Kholomiov wrote:

> Can you try out my example? It uses dust as trigger for events.
> I use two lines to compare the rate of events:
>
> line
> 23     ; ktrig  metro 2
> 24     ktrig  dust 1, 2
>
> We can comment one or another to compare the rates.
> My guess that the rate of events should be the same (2 per second)
> but in the dust case the events should happen not so evenly and out of tempo.
> But we can hear it's not the happening. The `dust` case produces much less
> evenets.
>
> 2017-03-16 18:21 GMT+03:00 jpff <[hidden email]>:
>       Looks like per second when I run the manual example
>
>       On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Anton Kholomiov wrote:
>
>       The docs says
>
>       Generates random impulses from 0 to 1.
>
>       kres dust kamp, kdensity
>       kdensity -- average number of impulses per second.
>
>
>       But when I try it. It seems that the kdensity is a number of
>       impulses per minute. It generates impulses at much slower
>       rate than expected.
> Csound mailing list [hidden email]
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports
> to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
> features can
> be posted here
>
>
> Csound mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
>
> Csound mailing list [hidden email]
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> be posted here
>
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Re: [Csnd] dust docs maybe mistake

jpff
Experiment suggest that te desity is per second per call in krate or per
sample at a ate.  Not sue how to ecod tis!


On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, jpff wrote:

> therate depends on kr as well.  Your example generates 15 events in 100
> Change ksmps to 1 and you get 400 in 100s, about 32 ties more. So the manual
> is incorrect as it stands but the truth is complex.  Will try to undestand
> the code
> ==John
>
> On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, Anton Kholomiov wrote:
>
>> Can you try out my example? It uses dust as trigger for events.
>> I use two lines to compare the rate of events:
>>
>> line
>> 23     ; ktrig  metro 2
>> 24     ktrig  dust 1, 2
>>
>> We can comment one or another to compare the rates.
>> My guess that the rate of events should be the same (2 per second)
>> but in the dust case the events should happen not so evenly and out of
>> tempo.
>> But we can hear it's not the happening. The `dust` case produces much less
>> evenets.
>>
>> 2017-03-16 18:21 GMT+03:00 jpff <[hidden email]>:
>>       Looks like per second when I run the manual example
>>
>>       On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Anton Kholomiov wrote:
>>
>>       The docs says
>>
>>       Generates random impulses from 0 to 1.
>>
>>       kres dust kamp, kdensity
>>       kdensity -- average number of impulses per second.
>>
>>
>>       But when I try it. It seems that the kdensity is a number of
>>       impulses per minute. It generates impulses at much slower
>>       rate than expected.
>> Csound mailing list [hidden email]
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports
>> to
>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>> features can
>> be posted here
>>
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>>
>> Csound mailing list [hidden email]
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features
>> can
>> be posted here
>>
>
> Csound mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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Re: [Csnd] dust docs maybe mistake

Anton Kholomiov
So for k-rate case the rate have to be scaled by ksmps ?

2017-03-17 19:31 GMT+03:00 jpff <[hidden email]>:
Experiment suggest that te desity is per second per call in krate or per sample at a ate.  Not sue how to ecod tis!



On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, jpff wrote:

therate depends on kr as well.  Your example generates 15 events in 100 Change ksmps to 1 and you get 400 in 100s, about 32 ties more. So the manual is incorrect as it stands but the truth is complex.  Will try to undestand the code
==John

On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, Anton Kholomiov wrote:

Can you try out my example? It uses dust as trigger for events.
I use two lines to compare the rate of events:

line
23     ; ktrig  metro 2
24     ktrig  dust 1, 2

We can comment one or another to compare the rates.
My guess that the rate of events should be the same (2 per second)
but in the dust case the events should happen not so evenly and out of tempo.
But we can hear it's not the happening. The `dust` case produces much less
evenets.

2017-03-16 18:21 GMT+03:00 jpff <[hidden email]>:
      Looks like per second when I run the manual example

      On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Anton Kholomiov wrote:

      The docs says

      Generates random impulses from 0 to 1.

      kres dust kamp, kdensity
      kdensity -- average number of impulses per second.


      But when I try it. It seems that the kdensity is a number of
      impulses per minute. It generates impulses at much slower
      rate than expected.
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Re: [Csnd] dust docs maybe mistake

Anton Kholomiov
by rate I mean density of dust

2017-03-18 10:31 GMT+03:00 Anton Kholomiov <[hidden email]>:
So for k-rate case the rate have to be scaled by ksmps ?

2017-03-17 19:31 GMT+03:00 jpff <[hidden email]>:
Experiment suggest that te desity is per second per call in krate or per sample at a ate.  Not sue how to ecod tis!



On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, jpff wrote:

therate depends on kr as well.  Your example generates 15 events in 100 Change ksmps to 1 and you get 400 in 100s, about 32 ties more. So the manual is incorrect as it stands but the truth is complex.  Will try to undestand the code
==John

On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, Anton Kholomiov wrote:

Can you try out my example? It uses dust as trigger for events.
I use two lines to compare the rate of events:

line
23     ; ktrig  metro 2
24     ktrig  dust 1, 2

We can comment one or another to compare the rates.
My guess that the rate of events should be the same (2 per second)
but in the dust case the events should happen not so evenly and out of tempo.
But we can hear it's not the happening. The `dust` case produces much less
evenets.

2017-03-16 18:21 GMT+03:00 jpff <[hidden email]>:
      Looks like per second when I run the manual example

      On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Anton Kholomiov wrote:

      The docs says

      Generates random impulses from 0 to 1.

      kres dust kamp, kdensity
      kdensity -- average number of impulses per second.


      But when I try it. It seems that the kdensity is a number of
      impulses per minute. It generates impulses at much slower
      rate than expected.
Csound mailing list [hidden email]
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Re: [Csnd] dust docs maybe mistake

jpff
In reply to this post by Anton Kholomiov
Yes, but it is too late to change the code.  I tried to change the documentation.

Sent from TypeApp
On 18 Mar 2017, at 07:32, Anton Kholomiov <[hidden email]> wrote:
So for k-rate case the rate have to be scaled by ksmps ?

2017-03-17 19:31 GMT+03:00 jpff <[hidden email]>:
Experiment suggest that te desity is per second per call in krate or per sample at a ate.  Not sue how to ecod tis!



On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, jpff wrote:

therate depends on kr as well.  Your example generates 15 events in 100 Change ksmps to 1 and you get 400 in 100s, about 32 ties more. So the manual is incorrect as it stands but the truth is complex.  Will try to undestand the code
==John

On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, Anton Kholomiov wrote:

Can you try out my example? It uses dust as trigger for events.
I use two lines to compare the rate of events:

line
23     ; ktrig  metro 2
24     ktrig  dust 1, 2

We can comment one or another to compare the rates.
My guess that the rate of events should be the same (2 per second)
but in the dust case the events should happen not so evenly and out of tempo.
But we can hear it's not the happening. The `dust` case produces much less
evenets.

2017-03-16 18:21 GMT+03:00 jpff <[hidden email]>:
      Looks like per second when I run the manual example

      On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Anton Kholomiov wrote:

      The docs says

      Generates random impulses from 0 to 1.

      kres dust kamp, kdensity
      kdensity -- average number of impulses per second.


      But when I try it. It seems that the kdensity is a number of
      impulses per minute. It generates impulses at much slower
      rate than expected.
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Re: [Csnd] dust docs maybe mistake

Victor Lazzarini
maybe not too late, we have not released it yet.

Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
Maynooth University
Ireland

On 18 Mar 2017, at 12:31, John ff <[hidden email]> wrote:

Yes, but it is too late to change the code.  I tried to change the documentation.

Sent from TypeApp
On 18 Mar 2017, at 07:32, Anton Kholomiov <[hidden email]> wrote:
So for k-rate case the rate have to be scaled by ksmps ?

2017-03-17 19:31 GMT+03:00 jpff <[hidden email]>:
Experiment suggest that te desity is per second per call in krate or per sample at a ate.  Not sue how to ecod tis!



On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, jpff wrote:

therate depends on kr as well.  Your example generates 15 events in 100 Change ksmps to 1 and you get 400 in 100s, about 32 ties more. So the manual is incorrect as it stands but the truth is complex.  Will try to undestand the code
==John

On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, Anton Kholomiov wrote:

Can you try out my example? It uses dust as trigger for events.
I use two lines to compare the rate of events:

line
23     ; ktrig  metro 2
24     ktrig  dust 1, 2

We can comment one or another to compare the rates.
My guess that the rate of events should be the same (2 per second)
but in the dust case the events should happen not so evenly and out of tempo.
But we can hear it's not the happening. The `dust` case produces much less
evenets.

2017-03-16 18:21 GMT+03:00 jpff <[hidden email]>:
      Looks like per second when I run the manual example

      On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Anton Kholomiov wrote:

      The docs says

      Generates random impulses from 0 to 1.

      kres dust kamp, kdensity
      kdensity -- average number of impulses per second.


      But when I try it. It seems that the kdensity is a number of
      impulses per minute. It generates impulses at much slower
      rate than expected.
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Re: [Csnd] dust docs maybe mistake

jpff
It has been in csound sice 2012 so rathe late.....

On Sat, 18 Mar 2017, Victor Lazzarini wrote:

> maybe not too late, we have not released it yet.
>
> Victor Lazzarini Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
> Maynooth University
> Ireland
>
> On 18 Mar 2017, at 12:31, John ff <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>       Yes, but it is too late to change the code.  I tried to change the
>       documentation.
>
> Sent from TypeApp
> On 18 Mar 2017, at 07:32, Anton Kholomiov <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>       So for k-rate case the rate have to be scaled by ksmps ?
>
> 2017-03-17 19:31 GMT+03:00 jpff <[hidden email]>:
>       Experiment suggest that te desity is per second per
>       call in krate or per sample at a ate.  Not sue how to
>       ecod tis!
>
>
>       On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, jpff wrote:
>
>             therate depends on kr as well.  Your
>             example generates 15 events in 100 Change
>             ksmps to 1 and you get 400 in 100s, about
>             32 ties more. So the manual is incorrect
>             as it stands but the truth is complex. 
>             Will try to undestand the code
>             ==John
>
>             On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, Anton Kholomiov
>             wrote:
>
>                   Can you try out my example? It
>                   uses dust as trigger for
>                   events.
>                   I use two lines to compare the
>                   rate of events:
>
>                   line
>                   23     ; ktrig  metro 2
>                   24     ktrig  dust 1, 2
>
>                   We can comment one or another
>                   to compare the rates.
>                   My guess that the rate of
>                   events should be the same (2
>                   per second)
>                   but in the dust case the
>                   events should happen not so
>                   evenly and out of tempo.
>                   But we can hear it's not the
>                   happening. The `dust` case
>                   produces much less
>                   evenets.
>
>                   2017-03-16 18:21 GMT+03:00
>                   jpff <[hidden email]>:
>                         Looks like per second
>                   when I run the manual example
>
>                         On Thu, 16 Mar 2017,
>                   Anton Kholomiov wrote:
>
>                         The docs says
>
>                         Generates random
>                   impulses from 0 to 1.
>
>                         kres dust kamp, kdensity
>                         kdensity -- average
>                   number of impulses per second.
>
>
>                         But when I try it. It
>                   seems that the kdensity is a
>                   number of
>                         impulses per minute. It
>                   generates impulses at much
>                   slower
>                         rate than expected.
>                   Csound mailing list
>                   [hidden email]
>                   https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>                   Send bugs reports
>                   to
>                   https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>                   Discussions of bugs and
>                   features can
>                   be posted here
>
>
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Re: [Csnd] dust docs maybe mistake

Steven Yi
This seems a pretty big bug though, one that would have come up sooner
if this was being used by a larger part of the community.  I'm
assuming it is not used much and could be a candidate to update, even
at the expense of breaking backwards compatibility.  It seems better
to me than the alternative to move forward and have an awkward note in
the manual.

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 12:33 PM, jpff <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It has been in csound sice 2012 so rathe late.....
>
>
> On Sat, 18 Mar 2017, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>
>> maybe not too late, we have not released it yet.
>>
>> Victor Lazzarini Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
>> Maynooth University
>> Ireland
>>
>> On 18 Mar 2017, at 12:31, John ff <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>       Yes, but it is too late to change the code.  I tried to change the
>>       documentation.
>>
>> Sent from TypeApp
>> On 18 Mar 2017, at 07:32, Anton Kholomiov <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>       So for k-rate case the rate have to be scaled by ksmps ?
>>
>> 2017-03-17 19:31 GMT+03:00 jpff <[hidden email]>:
>>       Experiment suggest that te desity is per second per
>>       call in krate or per sample at a ate.  Not sue how to
>>       ecod tis!
>>
>>
>>       On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, jpff wrote:
>>
>>             therate depends on kr as well.  Your
>>             example generates 15 events in 100 Change
>>             ksmps to 1 and you get 400 in 100s, about
>>             32 ties more. So the manual is incorrect
>>             as it stands but the truth is complex.
>>             Will try to undestand the code
>>             ==John
>>
>>             On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, Anton Kholomiov
>>             wrote:
>>
>>                   Can you try out my example? It
>>                   uses dust as trigger for
>>                   events.
>>                   I use two lines to compare the
>>                   rate of events:
>>
>>                   line
>>                   23     ; ktrig  metro 2
>>                   24     ktrig  dust 1, 2
>>
>>                   We can comment one or another
>>                   to compare the rates.
>>                   My guess that the rate of
>>                   events should be the same (2
>>                   per second)
>>                   but in the dust case the
>>                   events should happen not so
>>                   evenly and out of tempo.
>>                   But we can hear it's not the
>>                   happening. The `dust` case
>>                   produces much less
>>                   evenets.
>>
>>                   2017-03-16 18:21 GMT+03:00
>>                   jpff <[hidden email]>:
>>                         Looks like per second
>>                   when I run the manual example
>>
>>                         On Thu, 16 Mar 2017,
>>                   Anton Kholomiov wrote:
>>
>>                         The docs says
>>
>>                         Generates random
>>                   impulses from 0 to 1.
>>
>>                         kres dust kamp, kdensity
>>                         kdensity -- average
>>                   number of impulses per second.
>>
>>
>>                         But when I try it. It
>>                   seems that the kdensity is a
>>                   number of
>>                         impulses per minute. It
>>                   generates impulses at much
>>                   slower
>>                         rate than expected.
>>                   Csound mailing list
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>>                   https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>                   Send bugs reports
>>                   to
>>                   https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>                   Discussions of bugs and
>>                   features can
>>                   be posted here
>>
>>
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Re: [Csnd] dust docs maybe mistake

Doctor B
You should correct this bug.  I do use dust, but I would adjust

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 18, 2017, at 3:57 PM, Steven Yi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> This seems a pretty big bug though, one that would have come up sooner
> if this was being used by a larger part of the community.  I'm
> assuming it is not used much and could be a candidate to update, even
> at the expense of breaking backwards compatibility.  It seems better
> to me than the alternative to move forward and have an awkward note in
> the manual.
>
>> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 12:33 PM, jpff <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> It has been in csound sice 2012 so rathe late.....
>>
>>
>>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2017, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>
>>> maybe not too late, we have not released it yet.
>>>
>>> Victor Lazzarini Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
>>> Maynooth University
>>> Ireland
>>>
>>> On 18 Mar 2017, at 12:31, John ff <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>      Yes, but it is too late to change the code.  I tried to change the
>>>      documentation.
>>>
>>> Sent from TypeApp
>>> On 18 Mar 2017, at 07:32, Anton Kholomiov <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>      So for k-rate case the rate have to be scaled by ksmps ?
>>>
>>> 2017-03-17 19:31 GMT+03:00 jpff <[hidden email]>:
>>>      Experiment suggest that te desity is per second per
>>>      call in krate or per sample at a ate.  Not sue how to
>>>      ecod tis!
>>>
>>>
>>>      On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, jpff wrote:
>>>
>>>            therate depends on kr as well.  Your
>>>            example generates 15 events in 100 Change
>>>            ksmps to 1 and you get 400 in 100s, about
>>>            32 ties more. So the manual is incorrect
>>>            as it stands but the truth is complex.
>>>            Will try to undestand the code
>>>            ==John
>>>
>>>            On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, Anton Kholomiov
>>>            wrote:
>>>
>>>                  Can you try out my example? It
>>>                  uses dust as trigger for
>>>                  events.
>>>                  I use two lines to compare the
>>>                  rate of events:
>>>
>>>                  line
>>>                  23     ; ktrig  metro 2
>>>                  24     ktrig  dust 1, 2
>>>
>>>                  We can comment one or another
>>>                  to compare the rates.
>>>                  My guess that the rate of
>>>                  events should be the same (2
>>>                  per second)
>>>                  but in the dust case the
>>>                  events should happen not so
>>>                  evenly and out of tempo.
>>>                  But we can hear it's not the
>>>                  happening. The `dust` case
>>>                  produces much less
>>>                  evenets.
>>>
>>>                  2017-03-16 18:21 GMT+03:00
>>>                  jpff <[hidden email]>:
>>>                        Looks like per second
>>>                  when I run the manual example
>>>
>>>                        On Thu, 16 Mar 2017,
>>>                  Anton Kholomiov wrote:
>>>
>>>                        The docs says
>>>
>>>                        Generates random
>>>                  impulses from 0 to 1.
>>>
>>>                        kres dust kamp, kdensity
>>>                        kdensity -- average
>>>                  number of impulses per second.
>>>
>>>
>>>                        But when I try it. It
>>>                  seems that the kdensity is a
>>>                  number of
>>>                        impulses per minute. It
>>>                  generates impulses at much
>>>                  slower
>>>                        rate than expected.
>>>                  Csound mailing list
>>>                  [hidden email]
>>>                  https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>                  Send bugs reports
>>>                  to
>>>                  https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>                  Discussions of bugs and
>>>                  features can
>>>                  be posted here
>>>
>>>
>>>                  Csound mailing list
>>>                  [hidden email]
>>>                  https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>                  Send bugs reports to
>>>
>>>                   https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>                  Discussions of bugs and
>>>                  features can be posted here
>>>
>>>
>>>                  Csound mailing list
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>>>                  features can
>>>                  be posted here
>>>
>>>
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>>>            Send bugs reports to
>>>
>>>            https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>            Discussions of bugs and features can be
>>>            posted here
>>>
>>>
>>>      Csound mailing list
>>>      [hidden email]
>>>      https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>      Send bugs reports to
>>>             https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>      Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email]
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports
>>> to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>>> features can be posted here
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email]
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>>> can be posted here
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email]
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>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features
>>> can
>>> be posted here
>>>
>>
>> Csound mailing list
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>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
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>
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Re: [Csnd] dust docs maybe mistake

Michael Gogins-2
We must preserve backwards compatibility. 

We could do a dust2 that behaves as you wish.

Best,
Mike



On Mar 19, 2017 8:18 AM, "Dr. Richard Boulanger" <[hidden email]> wrote:
You should correct this bug.  I do use dust, but I would adjust

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 18, 2017, at 3:57 PM, Steven Yi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> This seems a pretty big bug though, one that would have come up sooner
> if this was being used by a larger part of the community.  I'm
> assuming it is not used much and could be a candidate to update, even
> at the expense of breaking backwards compatibility.  It seems better
> to me than the alternative to move forward and have an awkward note in
> the manual.
>
>> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 12:33 PM, jpff <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> It has been in csound sice 2012 so rathe late.....
>>
>>
>>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2017, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>
>>> maybe not too late, we have not released it yet.
>>>
>>> Victor Lazzarini Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
>>> Maynooth University
>>> Ireland
>>>
>>> On 18 Mar 2017, at 12:31, John ff <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>      Yes, but it is too late to change the code.  I tried to change the
>>>      documentation.
>>>
>>> Sent from TypeApp
>>> On 18 Mar 2017, at 07:32, Anton Kholomiov <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>      So for k-rate case the rate have to be scaled by ksmps ?
>>>
>>> 2017-03-17 19:31 GMT+03:00 jpff <[hidden email]>:
>>>      Experiment suggest that te desity is per second per
>>>      call in krate or per sample at a ate.  Not sue how to
>>>      ecod tis!
>>>
>>>
>>>      On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, jpff wrote:
>>>
>>>            therate depends on kr as well.  Your
>>>            example generates 15 events in 100 Change
>>>            ksmps to 1 and you get 400 in 100s, about
>>>            32 ties more. So the manual is incorrect
>>>            as it stands but the truth is complex.
>>>            Will try to undestand the code
>>>            ==John
>>>
>>>            On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, Anton Kholomiov
>>>            wrote:
>>>
>>>                  Can you try out my example? It
>>>                  uses dust as trigger for
>>>                  events.
>>>                  I use two lines to compare the
>>>                  rate of events:
>>>
>>>                  line
>>>                  23     ; ktrig  metro 2
>>>                  24     ktrig  dust 1, 2
>>>
>>>                  We can comment one or another
>>>                  to compare the rates.
>>>                  My guess that the rate of
>>>                  events should be the same (2
>>>                  per second)
>>>                  but in the dust case the
>>>                  events should happen not so
>>>                  evenly and out of tempo.
>>>                  But we can hear it's not the
>>>                  happening. The `dust` case
>>>                  produces much less
>>>                  evenets.
>>>
>>>                  2017-03-16 18:21 GMT+03:00
>>>                  jpff <[hidden email]>:
>>>                        Looks like per second
>>>                  when I run the manual example
>>>
>>>                        On Thu, 16 Mar 2017,
>>>                  Anton Kholomiov wrote:
>>>
>>>                        The docs says
>>>
>>>                        Generates random
>>>                  impulses from 0 to 1.
>>>
>>>                        kres dust kamp, kdensity
>>>                        kdensity -- average
>>>                  number of impulses per second.
>>>
>>>
>>>                        But when I try it. It
>>>                  seems that the kdensity is a
>>>                  number of
>>>                        impulses per minute. It
>>>                  generates impulses at much
>>>                  slower
>>>                        rate than expected.
>>>                  Csound mailing list
>>>                  [hidden email]
>>>                  https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>                  Send bugs reports
>>>                  to
>>>                  https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>                  Discussions of bugs and
>>>                  features can
>>>                  be posted here
>>>
>>>
>>>                  Csound mailing list
>>>                  [hidden email]
>>>                  https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>                  Send bugs reports to
>>>
>>>                   https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>                  Discussions of bugs and
>>>                  features can be posted here
>>>
>>>
>>>                  Csound mailing list
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>>>                  https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>                  Send bugs reports to
>>>                  https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>                  Discussions of bugs and
>>>                  features can
>>>                  be posted here
>>>
>>>
>>>            Csound mailing list
>>>            [hidden email]
>>>            https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>            Send bugs reports to
>>>
>>>            https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>            Discussions of bugs and features can be
>>>            posted here
>>>
>>>
>>>      Csound mailing list
>>>      [hidden email]
>>>      https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>      Send bugs reports to
>>>             https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>      Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email]
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports
>>> to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>>> features can be posted here
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email]
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features
>>> can be posted here
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email]
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features
>>> can
>>> be posted here
>>>
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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Send bugs reports to
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Re: [Csnd] dust docs maybe mistake

Steven Yi
There already is a dust2:

http://csound.github.io/docs/manual/dust2.html

These follow the design of Dust/Dust2 UGens from SC3. However, from
what I can ascertain in looking at SC3's code, the Dust and Dust2 code
depends upon mSampleDur, which looks to be set differently for 'audio'
and 'control' rate when a UGen is setup from the SC class (affected by
SC_World's Rate_Init()).  The C++ code for Dust2 then works for both
rates because that mSampleDur changes.

I think what happened is that when the Csound versions were
implemented, the code may have been a somewhat literal translation
from the SC3 code, without realization that mSampleDur would be
different at control rate in SC3.  That would hint at a bug then in
initial translation to Csound's conventions, and it would also explain
why dust/dust2 should work correctly at a-rate but not k-rate.

I would imagine it was the intention to match the implementation of
SC3 and accordingly this should be corrected.

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Michael Gogins
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> We must preserve backwards compatibility.
>
> We could do a dust2 that behaves as you wish.
>
> Best,
> Mike
>
>
>
> On Mar 19, 2017 8:18 AM, "Dr. Richard Boulanger" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> You should correct this bug.  I do use dust, but I would adjust
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Mar 18, 2017, at 3:57 PM, Steven Yi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > This seems a pretty big bug though, one that would have come up sooner
>> > if this was being used by a larger part of the community.  I'm
>> > assuming it is not used much and could be a candidate to update, even
>> > at the expense of breaking backwards compatibility.  It seems better
>> > to me than the alternative to move forward and have an awkward note in
>> > the manual.
>> >
>> >> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 12:33 PM, jpff <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> It has been in csound sice 2012 so rathe late.....
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2017, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> maybe not too late, we have not released it yet.
>> >>>
>> >>> Victor Lazzarini Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
>> >>> Maynooth University
>> >>> Ireland
>> >>>
>> >>> On 18 Mar 2017, at 12:31, John ff <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>      Yes, but it is too late to change the code.  I tried to change
>> >>> the
>> >>>      documentation.
>> >>>
>> >>> Sent from TypeApp
>> >>> On 18 Mar 2017, at 07:32, Anton Kholomiov <[hidden email]>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>      So for k-rate case the rate have to be scaled by ksmps ?
>> >>>
>> >>> 2017-03-17 19:31 GMT+03:00 jpff <[hidden email]>:
>> >>>      Experiment suggest that te desity is per second per
>> >>>      call in krate or per sample at a ate.  Not sue how to
>> >>>      ecod tis!
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>      On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, jpff wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>            therate depends on kr as well.  Your
>> >>>            example generates 15 events in 100 Change
>> >>>            ksmps to 1 and you get 400 in 100s, about
>> >>>            32 ties more. So the manual is incorrect
>> >>>            as it stands but the truth is complex.
>> >>>            Will try to undestand the code
>> >>>            ==John
>> >>>
>> >>>            On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, Anton Kholomiov
>> >>>            wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>                  Can you try out my example? It
>> >>>                  uses dust as trigger for
>> >>>                  events.
>> >>>                  I use two lines to compare the
>> >>>                  rate of events:
>> >>>
>> >>>                  line
>> >>>                  23     ; ktrig  metro 2
>> >>>                  24     ktrig  dust 1, 2
>> >>>
>> >>>                  We can comment one or another
>> >>>                  to compare the rates.
>> >>>                  My guess that the rate of
>> >>>                  events should be the same (2
>> >>>                  per second)
>> >>>                  but in the dust case the
>> >>>                  events should happen not so
>> >>>                  evenly and out of tempo.
>> >>>                  But we can hear it's not the
>> >>>                  happening. The `dust` case
>> >>>                  produces much less
>> >>>                  evenets.
>> >>>
>> >>>                  2017-03-16 18:21 GMT+03:00
>> >>>                  jpff <[hidden email]>:
>> >>>                        Looks like per second
>> >>>                  when I run the manual example
>> >>>
>> >>>                        On Thu, 16 Mar 2017,
>> >>>                  Anton Kholomiov wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>                        The docs says
>> >>>
>> >>>                        Generates random
>> >>>                  impulses from 0 to 1.
>> >>>
>> >>>                        kres dust kamp, kdensity
>> >>>                        kdensity -- average
>> >>>                  number of impulses per second.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>                        But when I try it. It
>> >>>                  seems that the kdensity is a
>> >>>                  number of
>> >>>                        impulses per minute. It
>> >>>                  generates impulses at much
>> >>>                  slower
>> >>>                        rate than expected.
>> >>>                  Csound mailing list
>> >>>                  [hidden email]
>> >>>                  https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> >>>                  Send bugs reports
>> >>>                  to
>> >>>                  https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> >>>                  Discussions of bugs and
>> >>>                  features can
>> >>>                  be posted here
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>                  Csound mailing list
>> >>>                  [hidden email]
>> >>>                  https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> >>>                  Send bugs reports to
>> >>>
>> >>>                   https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> >>>                  Discussions of bugs and
>> >>>                  features can be posted here
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>                  Csound mailing list
>> >>>                  [hidden email]
>> >>>                  https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> >>>                  Send bugs reports to
>> >>>                  https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> >>>                  Discussions of bugs and
>> >>>                  features can
>> >>>                  be posted here
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>            Csound mailing list
>> >>>            [hidden email]
>> >>>            https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> >>>            Send bugs reports to
>> >>>
>> >>>            https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> >>>            Discussions of bugs and features can be
>> >>>            posted here
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>      Csound mailing list
>> >>>      [hidden email]
>> >>>      https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> >>>      Send bugs reports to
>> >>>             https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> >>>      Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Csound mailing list [hidden email]
>> >>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports
>> >>> to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>> >>> features can be posted here
>> >>>
>> >>> Csound mailing list [hidden email]
>> >>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>> >>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>> >>> features
>> >>> can be posted here
>> >>>
>> >>> Csound mailing list [hidden email]
>> >>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>> >>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>> >>> features
>> >>> can
>> >>> be posted here
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Csound mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> >> Send bugs reports to
>> >>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >
>> > Csound mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> > Send bugs reports to
>> >        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list [hidden email]
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> be posted here

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Re: [Csnd] dust docs maybe mistake

Doctor B
Dust3

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 18, 2017, at 5:50 PM, Steven Yi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> There already is a dust2:
>
> http://csound.github.io/docs/manual/dust2.html
>
> These follow the design of Dust/Dust2 UGens from SC3. However, from
> what I can ascertain in looking at SC3's code, the Dust and Dust2 code
> depends upon mSampleDur, which looks to be set differently for 'audio'
> and 'control' rate when a UGen is setup from the SC class (affected by
> SC_World's Rate_Init()).  The C++ code for Dust2 then works for both
> rates because that mSampleDur changes.
>
> I think what happened is that when the Csound versions were
> implemented, the code may have been a somewhat literal translation
> from the SC3 code, without realization that mSampleDur would be
> different at control rate in SC3.  That would hint at a bug then in
> initial translation to Csound's conventions, and it would also explain
> why dust/dust2 should work correctly at a-rate but not k-rate.
>
> I would imagine it was the intention to match the implementation of
> SC3 and accordingly this should be corrected.
>
> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Michael Gogins
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> We must preserve backwards compatibility.
>>
>> We could do a dust2 that behaves as you wish.
>>
>> Best,
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 19, 2017 8:18 AM, "Dr. Richard Boulanger" <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> You should correct this bug.  I do use dust, but I would adjust
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Mar 18, 2017, at 3:57 PM, Steven Yi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This seems a pretty big bug though, one that would have come up sooner
>>>> if this was being used by a larger part of the community.  I'm
>>>> assuming it is not used much and could be a candidate to update, even
>>>> at the expense of breaking backwards compatibility.  It seems better
>>>> to me than the alternative to move forward and have an awkward note in
>>>> the manual.
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 12:33 PM, jpff <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> It has been in csound sice 2012 so rathe late.....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2017, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> maybe not too late, we have not released it yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Victor Lazzarini Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
>>>>>> Maynooth University
>>>>>> Ireland
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 18 Mar 2017, at 12:31, John ff <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Yes, but it is too late to change the code.  I tried to change
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>     documentation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from TypeApp
>>>>>> On 18 Mar 2017, at 07:32, Anton Kholomiov <[hidden email]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>     So for k-rate case the rate have to be scaled by ksmps ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2017-03-17 19:31 GMT+03:00 jpff <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>>     Experiment suggest that te desity is per second per
>>>>>>     call in krate or per sample at a ate.  Not sue how to
>>>>>>     ecod tis!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, jpff wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>           therate depends on kr as well.  Your
>>>>>>           example generates 15 events in 100 Change
>>>>>>           ksmps to 1 and you get 400 in 100s, about
>>>>>>           32 ties more. So the manual is incorrect
>>>>>>           as it stands but the truth is complex.
>>>>>>           Will try to undestand the code
>>>>>>           ==John
>>>>>>
>>>>>>           On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, Anton Kholomiov
>>>>>>           wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 Can you try out my example? It
>>>>>>                 uses dust as trigger for
>>>>>>                 events.
>>>>>>                 I use two lines to compare the
>>>>>>                 rate of events:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 line
>>>>>>                 23     ; ktrig  metro 2
>>>>>>                 24     ktrig  dust 1, 2
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 We can comment one or another
>>>>>>                 to compare the rates.
>>>>>>                 My guess that the rate of
>>>>>>                 events should be the same (2
>>>>>>                 per second)
>>>>>>                 but in the dust case the
>>>>>>                 events should happen not so
>>>>>>                 evenly and out of tempo.
>>>>>>                 But we can hear it's not the
>>>>>>                 happening. The `dust` case
>>>>>>                 produces much less
>>>>>>                 evenets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 2017-03-16 18:21 GMT+03:00
>>>>>>                 jpff <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>>                       Looks like per second
>>>>>>                 when I run the manual example
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                       On Thu, 16 Mar 2017,
>>>>>>                 Anton Kholomiov wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                       The docs says
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                       Generates random
>>>>>>                 impulses from 0 to 1.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                       kres dust kamp, kdensity
>>>>>>                       kdensity -- average
>>>>>>                 number of impulses per second.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                       But when I try it. It
>>>>>>                 seems that the kdensity is a
>>>>>>                 number of
>>>>>>                       impulses per minute. It
>>>>>>                 generates impulses at much
>>>>>>                 slower
>>>>>>                       rate than expected.
>>>>>>                 Csound mailing list
>>>>>>                 [hidden email]
>>>>>>                 https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>                 Send bugs reports
>>>>>>                 to
>>>>>>                 https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>                 Discussions of bugs and
>>>>>>                 features can
>>>>>>                 be posted here
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 Csound mailing list
>>>>>>                 [hidden email]
>>>>>>                 https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>                 Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                  https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>                 Discussions of bugs and
>>>>>>                 features can be posted here
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 Csound mailing list
>>>>>>                 [hidden email]
>>>>>>                 https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>                 Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>                 https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>                 Discussions of bugs and
>>>>>>                 features can
>>>>>>                 be posted here
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>           Csound mailing list
>>>>>>           [hidden email]
>>>>>>           https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>           Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>           https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>           Discussions of bugs and features can be
>>>>>>           posted here
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Csound mailing list
>>>>>>     [hidden email]
>>>>>>     https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>     Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>            https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>     Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports
>>>>>> to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>>>>>> features can be posted here
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>>>>>> features
>>>>>> can be posted here
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>>>>>> features
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> be posted here
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>      https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>
>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list [hidden email]
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>> be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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Re: [Csnd] dust docs maybe mistake

jpff
In reply to this post by Steven Yi
How to proceed?  Would anyone object if this were changed to coincide with SC?

Sent from TypeApp
On 18 Mar 2017, at 21:51, Steven Yi <[hidden email]> wrote:
There already is a dust2:

http://csound.github.io/docs/manual/dust2.html

These follow the design of Dust/Dust2 UGens from SC3. However, from
what I can ascertain in looking at SC3's code, the Dust and Dust2 code
depends upon mSampleDur, which looks to be set differently for 'audio'
and 'control' rate when a UGen is setup from the SC class (affected by
SC_World's Rate_Init()). The C++ code for Dust2 then works for both
rates because that mSampleDur changes.

I think what happened is that when the Csound versions were
implemented, the code may have been a somewhat literal translation
from the SC3 code, without realization that mSampleDur would be
different at control rate in SC3. That would hint at a bug then in
initial translation to Csound's conventions, and it would also explain
why dust/dust2 should work correctly at a-rate but not k-rate.

I would imagine it was the intention to match the implementation of
SC3 and accordingly this should be corrected.

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Michael Gogins
<[hidden email]> wrote:
We must preserve backwards compatibility.

We could do a dust2 that behaves as you wish.

Best,
Mike



On Mar 19, 2017 8:18 AM, "Dr. Richard Boulanger" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

You should correct this bug. I do use dust, but I would adjust

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 18, 2017, at 3:57 PM, Steven Yi <[hidden email]> wrote:

This seems a pretty big bug though, one that would have come up sooner
if this was being used by a larger part of the community. I'm
assuming it is not used much and could be a candidate to update, even
at the expense of breaking backwards compatibility. It seems better
to me than the alternative to move forward and have an awkward note in
the manual.

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 12:33 PM, jpff <[hidden email]> wrote:
It has been in csound sice 2012 so rathe late.....


On Sat, 18 Mar 2017, Victor Lazzarini wrote:

maybe not too late, we have not released it yet.

Victor Lazzarini Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
Maynooth University
Ireland

On 18 Mar 2017, at 12:31, John ff <[hidden email]> wrote:

Yes, but it is too late to change the code. I tried to change
the
documentation.

Sent from TypeApp
On 18 Mar 2017, at 07:32, Anton Kholomiov <[hidden email]>
wrote:
So for k-rate case the rate have to be scaled by ksmps ?

2017-03-17 19:31 GMT+03:00 jpff <[hidden email]>:
Experiment suggest that te desity is per second per
call in krate or per sample at a ate. Not sue how to
ecod tis!


On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, jpff wrote:

therate depends on kr as well. Your
example generates 15 events in 100 Change
ksmps to 1 and you get 400 in 100s, about
32 ties more. So the manual is incorrect
as it stands but the truth is complex.
Will try to undestand the code
==John

On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, Anton Kholomiov
wrote:

Can you try out my example? It
uses dust as trigger for
events.
I use two lines to compare the
rate of events:

line
23 ; ktrig metro 2
24 ktrig dust 1, 2

We can comment one or another
to compare the rates.
My guess that the rate of
events should be the same (2
per second)
but in the dust case the
events should happen not so
evenly and out of tempo.
But we can hear it's not the
happening. The `dust` case
produces much less
evenets.

2017-03-16 18:21 GMT+03:00
jpff <[hidden email]>:
Looks like per second
when I run the manual example

On Thu, 16 Mar 2017,
Anton Kholomiov wrote:

The docs says

Generates random
impulses from 0 to 1.

kres dust kamp, kdensity
kdensity -- average
number of impulses per second.


But when I try it. It
seems that the kdensity is a
number of
impulses per minute. It
generates impulses at much
slower
rate than expected.
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Re: [Csnd] dust docs maybe mistake

Oeyvind Brandtsegg-2
I think that sounds like a good solution 

19. mar. 2017 8.12 a.m. skrev "John ff" <[hidden email]>:
How to proceed?  Would anyone object if this were changed to coincide with SC?

Sent from TypeApp
On 18 Mar 2017, at 21:51, Steven Yi <[hidden email]> wrote:
There already is a dust2:

http://csound.github.io/docs/manual/dust2.html

These follow the design of Dust/Dust2 UGens from SC3. However, from
what I can ascertain in looking at SC3's code, the Dust and Dust2 code
depends upon mSampleDur, which looks to be set differently for 'audio'
and 'control' rate when a UGen is setup from the SC class (affected by
SC_World's Rate_Init()). The C++ code for Dust2 then works for both
rates because that mSampleDur changes.

I think what happened is that when the Csound versions were
implemented, the code may have been a somewhat literal translation
from the SC3 code, without realization that mSampleDur would be
different at control rate in SC3. That would hint at a bug then in
initial translation to Csound's conventions, and it would also explain
why dust/dust2 should work correctly at a-rate but not k-rate.

I would imagine it was the intention to match the implementation of
SC3 and accordingly this should be corrected.

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Michael Gogins
<[hidden email]> wrote:
We must preserve backwards compatibility.

We could do a dust2 that behaves as you wish.

Best,
Mike



On Mar 19, 2017 8:18 AM, "Dr. Richard Boulanger" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

You should correct this bug. I do use dust, but I would adjust

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 18, 2017, at 3:57 PM, Steven Yi <[hidden email]> wrote:

This seems a pretty big bug though, one that would have come up sooner
if this was being used by a larger part of the community. I'm
assuming it is not used much and could be a candidate to update, even
at the expense of breaking backwards compatibility. It seems better
to me than the alternative to move forward and have an awkward note in
the manual.

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 12:33 PM, jpff <[hidden email]> wrote:
It has been in csound sice 2012 so rathe late.....


On Sat, 18 Mar 2017, Victor Lazzarini wrote:

maybe not too late, we have not released it yet.

Victor Lazzarini Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
Maynooth University
Ireland

On 18 Mar 2017, at 12:31, John ff <[hidden email]> wrote:

Yes, but it is too late to change the code. I tried to change
the
documentation.

Sent from TypeApp
On 18 Mar 2017, at 07:32, Anton Kholomiov <[hidden email]>
wrote:
So for k-rate case the rate have to be scaled by ksmps ?

2017-03-17 19:31 GMT+03:00 jpff <[hidden email]>:
Experiment suggest that te desity is per second per
call in krate or per sample at a ate. Not sue how to
ecod tis!


On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, jpff wrote:

therate depends on kr as well. Your
example generates 15 events in 100 Change
ksmps to 1 and you get 400 in 100s, about
32 ties more. So the manual is incorrect
as it stands but the truth is complex.
Will try to undestand the code
==John

On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, Anton Kholomiov
wrote:

Can you try out my example? It
uses dust as trigger for
events.
I use two lines to compare the
rate of events:

line
23 ; ktrig metro 2
24 ktrig dust 1, 2

We can comment one or another
to compare the rates.
My guess that the rate of
events should be the same (2
per second)
but in the dust case the
events should happen not so
evenly and out of tempo.
But we can hear it's not the
happening. The `dust` case
produces much less
evenets.

2017-03-16 18:21 GMT+03:00
jpff <[hidden email]>:
Looks like per second
when I run the manual example

On Thu, 16 Mar 2017,
Anton Kholomiov wrote:

The docs says

Generates random
impulses from 0 to 1.

kres dust kamp, kdensity
kdensity -- average
number of impulses per second.


But when I try it. It
seems that the kdensity is a
number of
impulses per minute. It
generates impulses at much
slower
rate than expected.
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Re: [Csnd] dust docs maybe mistake

Victor Lazzarini
I think so.
========================
Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy,
Maynooth University,
Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
Tel: 00 353 7086936
Fax: 00 353 1 7086952

> On 19 Mar 2017, at 15:51, Oeyvind Brandtsegg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I think that sounds like a good solution
>
> 19. mar. 2017 8.12 a.m. skrev "John ff" <[hidden email]>:
> How to proceed?  Would anyone object if this were changed to coincide with SC?
>
> Sent from TypeApp
> On 18 Mar 2017, at 21:51, Steven Yi <[hidden email]> wrote:
> There already is a dust2:
>
> http://csound.github.io/docs/manual/dust2.html
>
> These follow the design of Dust/Dust2 UGens from SC3. However, from
> what I can ascertain in looking at SC3's code, the Dust and Dust2 code
> depends upon mSampleDur, which looks to be set differently for 'audio'
> and 'control' rate when a UGen is setup from the SC class (affected by
> SC_World's Rate_Init()).  The C++ code for Dust2 then works for both
> rates because that mSampleDur changes.
>
> I think what happened is that when the Csound versions were
> implemented, the code may have been a somewhat literal translation
> from the SC3 code, without realization that mSampleDur would be
> different at control rate in SC3.  That would hint at a bug then in
> initial translation to Csound's conventions, and it would also explain
> why dust/dust2 should work correctly at a-rate but not k-rate.
>
> I would imagine it was the intention to match the implementation of
> SC3 and accordingly this should be corrected.
>
> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Michael Gogins
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  We must preserve backwards compatibility.
>
>  We could do a dust2 that behaves as you wish.
>
>  Best,
>  Mike
>
>
>
>  On Mar 19, 2017 8:18 AM, "Dr. Richard Boulanger" <[hidden email]>
>  wrote:
>
>  You should correct this bug.  I do use dust, but I would adjust
>
>  Sent from my iPhone
>
>  On Mar 18, 2017, at 3:57 PM, Steven Yi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>  This seems a pretty big bug though, one that would have come up sooner
>  if this was being used by a larger part of the community.  I'm
>  assuming it is not used much and could be a candidate to update, even
>  at the expense of breaking backwards compatibility.  It seems better
>  to me than the alternative to move forward and have an awkward note in
>  the manual.
>
>  On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 12:33 PM, jpff <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  It has been in csound sice 2012 so rathe late.....
>
>
>  On Sat, 18 Mar 2017, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>
>  maybe not too late, we have not released it yet.
>
>  Victor Lazzarini Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
>  Maynooth University
>  Ireland
>
>  On 18 Mar 2017, at 12:31, John ff <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>       Yes, but it is too late to change the code.  I tried to change
>  the
>       documentation.
>
>  Sent from TypeApp
>  On 18 Mar 2017, at 07:32, Anton Kholomiov <[hidden email]>
>  wrote:
>       So for k-rate case the rate have to be scaled by ksmps ?
>
>  2017-03-17 19:31 GMT+03:00 jpff <[hidden email]>:
>       Experiment suggest that te desity is per second per
>       call in krate or per sample at a ate.  Not sue how to
>       ecod tis!
>
>
>       On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, jpff wrote:
>
>             therate depends on kr as well.  Your
>             example generates 15 events in 100 Change
>             ksmps to 1 and you get 400 in 100s, about
>             32 ties more. So the manual is incorrect
>             as it stands but the truth is complex.
>             Will try to undestand the code
>             ==John
>
>             On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, Anton Kholomiov
>             wrote:
>
>                   Can you try out my example? It
>                   uses dust as trigger for
>                   events.
>                   I use two lines to compare the
>                   rate of events:
>
>                   line
>                   23     ; ktrig  metro 2
>                   24     ktrig  dust 1, 2
>
>                   We can comment one or another
>                   to compare the rates.
>                   My guess that the rate of
>                   events should be the same (2
>                   per second)
>                   but in the dust case the
>                   events should happen not so
>                   evenly and out of tempo.
>                   But we can hear it's not the
>                   happening. The `dust` case
>                   produces much less
>                   evenets.
>
>                   2017-03-16 18:21 GMT+03:00
>                   jpff <[hidden email]>:
>                         Looks like per second
>                   when I run the manual example
>
>                         On Thu, 16 Mar 2017,
>                   Anton Kholomiov wrote:
>
>                         The docs says
>
>                         Generates random
>                   impulses from 0 to 1.
>
>                         kres dust kamp, kdensity
>                         kdensity -- average
>                   number of impulses per second.
>
>
>                         But when I try it. It
>                   seems that the kdensity is a
>                   number of
>                         impulses per minute. It
>                   generates impulses at much
>                   slower
>                         rate than expected.
>                   Csound mailing list
>                   [hidden email]
>                   https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>                   Send bugs reports
>                   to
>                   https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>                   Discussions of bugs and
>                   features can
>                   be posted here
>
>
>                   Csound mailing list
>                   [hidden email]
>                   https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>                   Send bugs reports to
>
>                    https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>                   Discussions of bugs and
>                   features can be posted here
>
>
>                   Csound mailing list
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>                   https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
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>                   be posted here
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>
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>
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Re: [Csnd] dust docs maybe mistake

Steven Yi
Yes, please do just change dust/dust2.

On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Victor Lazzarini
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think so.
> ========================
> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy,
> Maynooth University,
> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> Tel: 00 353 7086936
> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>
>> On 19 Mar 2017, at 15:51, Oeyvind Brandtsegg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I think that sounds like a good solution
>>
>> 19. mar. 2017 8.12 a.m. skrev "John ff" <[hidden email]>:
>> How to proceed?  Would anyone object if this were changed to coincide with SC?
>>
>> Sent from TypeApp
>> On 18 Mar 2017, at 21:51, Steven Yi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> There already is a dust2:
>>
>> http://csound.github.io/docs/manual/dust2.html
>>
>> These follow the design of Dust/Dust2 UGens from SC3. However, from
>> what I can ascertain in looking at SC3's code, the Dust and Dust2 code
>> depends upon mSampleDur, which looks to be set differently for 'audio'
>> and 'control' rate when a UGen is setup from the SC class (affected by
>> SC_World's Rate_Init()).  The C++ code for Dust2 then works for both
>> rates because that mSampleDur changes.
>>
>> I think what happened is that when the Csound versions were
>> implemented, the code may have been a somewhat literal translation
>> from the SC3 code, without realization that mSampleDur would be
>> different at control rate in SC3.  That would hint at a bug then in
>> initial translation to Csound's conventions, and it would also explain
>> why dust/dust2 should work correctly at a-rate but not k-rate.
>>
>> I would imagine it was the intention to match the implementation of
>> SC3 and accordingly this should be corrected.
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Michael Gogins
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>  We must preserve backwards compatibility.
>>
>>  We could do a dust2 that behaves as you wish.
>>
>>  Best,
>>  Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>  On Mar 19, 2017 8:18 AM, "Dr. Richard Boulanger" <[hidden email]>
>>  wrote:
>>
>>  You should correct this bug.  I do use dust, but I would adjust
>>
>>  Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>  On Mar 18, 2017, at 3:57 PM, Steven Yi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>  This seems a pretty big bug though, one that would have come up sooner
>>  if this was being used by a larger part of the community.  I'm
>>  assuming it is not used much and could be a candidate to update, even
>>  at the expense of breaking backwards compatibility.  It seems better
>>  to me than the alternative to move forward and have an awkward note in
>>  the manual.
>>
>>  On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 12:33 PM, jpff <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>  It has been in csound sice 2012 so rathe late.....
>>
>>
>>  On Sat, 18 Mar 2017, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>
>>  maybe not too late, we have not released it yet.
>>
>>  Victor Lazzarini Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
>>  Maynooth University
>>  Ireland
>>
>>  On 18 Mar 2017, at 12:31, John ff <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>       Yes, but it is too late to change the code.  I tried to change
>>  the
>>       documentation.
>>
>>  Sent from TypeApp
>>  On 18 Mar 2017, at 07:32, Anton Kholomiov <[hidden email]>
>>  wrote:
>>       So for k-rate case the rate have to be scaled by ksmps ?
>>
>>  2017-03-17 19:31 GMT+03:00 jpff <[hidden email]>:
>>       Experiment suggest that te desity is per second per
>>       call in krate or per sample at a ate.  Not sue how to
>>       ecod tis!
>>
>>
>>       On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, jpff wrote:
>>
>>             therate depends on kr as well.  Your
>>             example generates 15 events in 100 Change
>>             ksmps to 1 and you get 400 in 100s, about
>>             32 ties more. So the manual is incorrect
>>             as it stands but the truth is complex.
>>             Will try to undestand the code
>>             ==John
>>
>>             On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, Anton Kholomiov
>>             wrote:
>>
>>                   Can you try out my example? It
>>                   uses dust as trigger for
>>                   events.
>>                   I use two lines to compare the
>>                   rate of events:
>>
>>                   line
>>                   23     ; ktrig  metro 2
>>                   24     ktrig  dust 1, 2
>>
>>                   We can comment one or another
>>                   to compare the rates.
>>                   My guess that the rate of
>>                   events should be the same (2
>>                   per second)
>>                   but in the dust case the
>>                   events should happen not so
>>                   evenly and out of tempo.
>>                   But we can hear it's not the
>>                   happening. The `dust` case
>>                   produces much less
>>                   evenets.
>>
>>                   2017-03-16 18:21 GMT+03:00
>>                   jpff <[hidden email]>:
>>                         Looks like per second
>>                   when I run the manual example
>>
>>                         On Thu, 16 Mar 2017,
>>                   Anton Kholomiov wrote:
>>
>>                         The docs says
>>
>>                         Generates random
>>                   impulses from 0 to 1.
>>
>>                         kres dust kamp, kdensity
>>                         kdensity -- average
>>                   number of impulses per second.
>>
>>
>>                         But when I try it. It
>>                   seems that the kdensity is a
>>                   number of
>>                         impulses per minute. It
>>                   generates impulses at much
>>                   slower
>>                         rate than expected.
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[Csnd] dust docs correct; code changed

jpff
In reply to this post by jpff
WARNING!! i have changed dust and dust2 in k-rate version to agree with
the documentation, and added a note in the manual.

So if you use dust or dust2 at k-rate please be aware of the bug fix from
git or next release.

Apologies for this incompatible change but as the opcode is a copy of a
SuperCollider one it seems right to make the change

==John ff

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