[Csnd] Zak patching Popping Samples ?

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[Csnd] Zak patching Popping Samples ?

fauveboy
I want to upload a  csound program Im working on for support. Pops are
occuring i believe because of a build up of samples within the zak patching
opcode? Im not completely sure its only happening when I send mulitple
percussive sounds to a mixer which have less than 0.30 of a beat between
each other and 89bpm. I have used envelopes which suggests the pops arent
occurring from the sound source?

i've linked the file uncase someone is happy to have a look;

LINK: https://we.tl/t-glU8icaetR

on download there is a zip file called forcsoundforum. Inside that there
are two folders is one called intruments (which is where I define the
instruments) and in the other folder called Score_AudioforForum is
chimeAbi.orc and chimeAbi.sco (amonsgt other folders) which will reveal what
the sound is doing.

am I using zak in a way that is creating these pops?

Many many thanks,

J



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Re: [Csnd] Zak patching Popping Samples ?

thorin kerr
Instrument 9999 is the zak clearing instrument (zacl).
Do you use it? It should be always on. 

On Fri, 7 Sep. 2018, 7:21 pm fauveboy, <[hidden email]> wrote:
I want to upload a  csound program Im working on for support. Pops are
occuring i believe because of a build up of samples within the zak patching
opcode? Im not completely sure its only happening when I send mulitple
percussive sounds to a mixer which have less than 0.30 of a beat between
each other and 89bpm. I have used envelopes which suggests the pops arent
occurring from the sound source?

i've linked the file uncase someone is happy to have a look;

LINK: https://we.tl/t-glU8icaetR

on download there is a zip file called forcsoundforum. Inside that there
are two folders is one called intruments (which is where I define the
instruments) and in the other folder called Score_AudioforForum is
chimeAbi.orc and chimeAbi.sco (amonsgt other folders) which will reveal what
the sound is doing.

am I using zak in a way that is creating these pops?

Many many thanks,

J



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Re: [Csnd] Zak patching Popping Samples ?

thorin kerr
Hans Mikelson has worked with zak on large orcs. 

Worth studying.

On Fri, 7 Sep. 2018, 8:21 pm thorin kerr, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Instrument 9999 is the zak clearing instrument (zacl).
Do you use it? It should be always on. 

On Fri, 7 Sep. 2018, 7:21 pm fauveboy, <[hidden email]> wrote:
I want to upload a  csound program Im working on for support. Pops are
occuring i believe because of a build up of samples within the zak patching
opcode? Im not completely sure its only happening when I send mulitple
percussive sounds to a mixer which have less than 0.30 of a beat between
each other and 89bpm. I have used envelopes which suggests the pops arent
occurring from the sound source?

i've linked the file uncase someone is happy to have a look;

LINK: https://we.tl/t-glU8icaetR

on download there is a zip file called forcsoundforum. Inside that there
are two folders is one called intruments (which is where I define the
instruments) and in the other folder called Score_AudioforForum is
chimeAbi.orc and chimeAbi.sco (amonsgt other folders) which will reveal what
the sound is doing.

am I using zak in a way that is creating these pops?

Many many thanks,

J



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Re: [Csnd] Zak patching Popping Samples ?

fauveboy
I do use zacl at the end of each of the call to the mixer instead of the
instr 9999 you see. But perhaps theres something going own as there are
multiple i statements (be it short) before  zacl?

Thanks I'll take a look at your link too.





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Re: [Csnd] Zak patching Popping Samples ?

fauveboy
This post was updated on .
its a bit confusing what he's done because his score says :

; Mixer
;     Sta  Dur  Ch1  Gain  Pan  Ch2  Gain  Pan
i100  0    2   1    2     .5   3    0     0

; Clear Channels
;     Sta  Dur
i110  0    2

The clearance is happening at the same time as the sound is using the
channel?

I placed my instrument 9999 making sure its included the control channels
(which it didnt before). But I get silence ? How does his example work?

           instr 9999

          zacl  0, 30          ; Clear audio channels 0 to 30
          zkcl  0, 30          ; Clear control channels 0 to 30

          endin

edit: i've also made sure the instrument clearing is last ...

I was thinking its because there are multiple i statments occurring using control rate data before reaching instr 9999. But it does seem to be that hans mikelson has done that too...

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Re: [Csnd] Zak patching Popping Samples ?

thorin kerr
It's a little unusual because he's not accumulating all the sound into an 'always on' output. Instead, instrument 100 (the mixer) is the only instrument with outs, and it gets instantiated at the end of a particular signal path (e.g. vco > chorus > reverb > mixer/out/clear). The analogy is a bit more like a channel strip on an actual mixer desk (with gain and pan).  

I do see he's specified multiple clearing instruments that start and stop with each mixer channel. Probably doesn't need to do that. One 'always on' clearing instrument would work just the same.

So... clearing doesn't interfere because of the way Csound works.  You'll see that instrument 110 is the last instrument number in the orc. That's important. I'm not a developer, so I don't want to say exactly why, but as I understand it, Csound calculates audio in a round-robin by order of instrument number. In this case, the audio goes to an out (so you hear it), then gets cleared after output. And because the clearing instrument is the last numbered intrument, then that should work fine. If you're not getting audio, make sure your out instrument is a lower number than  your clearing instrument. Clearing before output will get you silence.

And... all that said... if you're not clearing zak channels, I find you tend to get more of a high pitched whine, rather than pops. So this may not be your issue at all.

Thorin

On Sat, 8 Sep. 2018, 8:59 pm fauveboy, <[hidden email]> wrote:
its a bit confusing what he's done because his score says :

; Mixer
;     Sta  Dur  Ch1  Gain  Pan  Ch2  Gain  Pan
i100  0    2   1    2     .5   3    0     0

; Clear Channels
;     Sta  Dur
i110  0    2

The clearance is happening at the same time as the sound is using the
channel?

I placed my instrument 9999 making sure its included the control channels
(which it didnt before). But I get silence ? How does his example work?

           instr 9999

          zacl  0, 30          ; Clear audio channels 0 to 30
          zkcl  0, 30          ; Clear control channels 0 to 30

          endin



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Re: [Csnd] Zak patching Popping Samples ?

fauveboy
Its a tough one because:
My Mixer equivalent to his instr 100 is also the only instrument that
outputs audio and is now instantiated at the end of the signal path.

my clearance instrument like 110 is also the last in the orc (and the
score). So, the audio should reach the output before the clearance. Which
means its still odd that theres silence when use:
          zkcl  0, 30.

I doing get a high pitchness when I don't use :
 zacl  0, 30  

And as you say about the whining there is none, just pops...not solved yet.
So it might be something else i guess?







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Re: [Csnd] Zak patching Popping Samples ?

jpff
which versin was giving the pops?  Locally built of 6.11 or what?


On Sat, 8 Sep 2018, fauveboy wrote:

> Its a tough one because:
> My Mixer equivalent to his instr 100 is also the only instrument that
> outputs audio and is now instantiated at the end of the signal path.
>
> my clearance instrument like 110 is also the last in the orc (and the
> score). So, the audio should reach the output before the clearance. Which
> means its still odd that theres silence when use:
>          zkcl  0, 30.
>
> I doing get a high pitchness when I don't use :
> zacl  0, 30
>
> And as you say about the whining there is none, just pops...not solved yet.
> So it might be something else i guess?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [Csnd] Zak patching Popping Samples ?

fauveboy
I used sudo apt-get on raspbian lite have version 6.08



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Re: [Csnd] Zak patching Popping Samples ?

jpff
OK,so my theory is wrong.

I took a copy of your code but I am not sure I will have time to adjust it wrt the file names in the includes.  Would be easier with relative paths and/or use of INCDIR

⁣Sent from TypeApp ​

On Sep 9, 2018, 11:28, at 11:28, fauveboy <[hidden email]> wrote:

>I used sudo apt-get on raspbian lite have version 6.08
>
>
>
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Re: [Csnd] Zak patching Popping Samples ?

fauveboy
Okay I'll rearrange the program and upload another link if thats okay :)



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Re: [Csnd] Zak patching Popping Samples ?

fauveboy
the program is now a csd file that doesnt't need any adjusting and so should
run as is. This csd file is inside the OneChma.zip file which also includes
the sco/txt files which are included in the csd file.

the audio plays back with quick percussive hits

LINK>> https://we.tl/t-5VczxUBYYp

I now believe that the pop is due to the "metallicReverb" which you may see
included in the score? do avoid it i've been adjust its parameters and maybe
have to add an envelope after the reverb.

However when i include zkcl along side zacl at the end of the insturment
Mixer4TrackNosend1 there is still silence i havent worked out why that is
the case yet, so for now zkcl is commented out which maybe be a problem
later in the score??



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Re: [Csnd] Zak patching Popping Samples ?

jpff
I tried to get that file but it was a zip file containung one empty
directory.

On Mon, 10 Sep 2018, fauveboy wrote:

> the program is now a csd file that doesnt't need any adjusting and so should
> run as is. This csd file is inside the OneChma.zip file which also includes
> the sco/txt files which are included in the csd file.
>
> the audio plays back with quick percussive hits
>
> LINK>> https://we.tl/t-5VczxUBYYp
>
> I now believe that the pop is due to the "metallicReverb" which you may see
> included in the score? do avoid it i've been adjust its parameters and maybe
> have to add an envelope after the reverb.
>
> However when i include zkcl along side zacl at the end of the insturment
> Mixer4TrackNosend1 there is still silence i havent worked out why that is
> the case yet, so for now zkcl is commented out which maybe be a problem
> later in the score??
>
>
>
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Re: [Csnd] Zak patching Popping Samples ?

fauveboy
Very sorry about that i left out the -r flag in my zip command.
This will be a full directory:
heres the new LINK>> https://we.tl/t-7WKhp0qMRw



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Re: [Csnd] Zak patching Popping Samples ?

jpff
OK I can run chma.csd to generate sounds.  I did not find and score
statement after the first 0.27s so the silence was not unexpected.  What
have I missed?

On Tue, 11 Sep 2018, fauveboy wrote:

> Very sorry about that i left out the -r flag in my zip command.
> This will be a full directory:
> heres the new LINK>> https://we.tl/t-7WKhp0qMRw
>
>
>
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Re: [Csnd] Zak patching Popping Samples ?

fauveboy
thats great thanks. So, inside the file Mixer4TrackNoSend1.csd

 You'll see that zkcl is commented. If you uncomment zkcl thats when you
should  get a silent output?



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Re: [Csnd] Zak patching Popping Samples ?

jpff
Removing the comment symbol I get lots of out-of-range samples with still
silence after.

Is that the complaint?

On Tue, 11 Sep 2018, fauveboy wrote:

> thats great thanks. So, inside the file Mixer4TrackNoSend1.csd
>
> You'll see that zkcl is commented. If you uncomment zkcl thats when you
> should  get a silent output?
>
>
>
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Re: [Csnd] Zak patching Popping Samples ?

fauveboy
hmm i dont get samples out of range mine says:

 overall samples out of range:    0    0

it seems to perform fine its just theres no overall amps?




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Re: [Csnd] Zak patching Popping Samples ?

fauveboy
The doesnt seem to be implications for not including zkcl?



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Re: [Csnd] Zak patching Popping Samples ?

jpff
Sorry but y do not understand.

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On 21 Sep 2018, at 15:53, fauveboy <[hidden email]> wrote:
The doesnt seem to be implications for not including zkcl?



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