[Csnd] Handling MIDI sustain/sostenuto control messages

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[Csnd] Handling MIDI sustain/sostenuto control messages

Dave Seidel
One of my MIDI keyboards is a QuNexus, which has a feature where it can toggle notes on or off. When this is enabled, one key press sends a note-on message, and the note-off message is not sent until the key is pressed again. Given that I tend to make a lot of drones, I like this feature. 

I recently got a Korg Nanokey2, which lacks this feature. It does have a sustain button, which is apparently more standard: it sends CC 64, but the keyboard still sends a note-off when the key is released. I guess that most MIDI systems just handle this appropriately. But how should I handle CC 64 in sound code? Do I have to ignore note releases in this case and wait for the control value to change? This would make my code more complex. Is there an easier way? My code is already complex enough because it uses a handler instrument that responds to the note messages, but triggers other instrument instances to produce sound (for various reasons) and then turns the triggered instrument off when it sees the release.

- Dave
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Re: [Csnd] Handling MIDI sustain/sostenuto control messages

zappfinger

Maybe you could turn midi into OSC, to have more control over what is happening. Of course the receiving instruments should have to be modified to react to OSC in stead of midi...

just my 2 cents..

Richard


On 15/09/18 20:54, Dave Seidel wrote:
One of my MIDI keyboards is a QuNexus, which has a feature where it can toggle notes on or off. When this is enabled, one key press sends a note-on message, and the note-off message is not sent until the key is pressed again. Given that I tend to make a lot of drones, I like this feature. 

I recently got a Korg Nanokey2, which lacks this feature. It does have a sustain button, which is apparently more standard: it sends CC 64, but the keyboard still sends a note-off when the key is released. I guess that most MIDI systems just handle this appropriately. But how should I handle CC 64 in sound code? Do I have to ignore note releases in this case and wait for the control value to change? This would make my code more complex. Is there an easier way? My code is already complex enough because it uses a handler instrument that responds to the note messages, but triggers other instrument instances to produce sound (for various reasons) and then turns the triggered instrument off when it sees the release.

- Dave
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Re: [Csnd] Handling MIDI sustain/sostenuto control messages

Dave Seidel
I'm already using OSC to control all other aspects of the program, but was hoping to keep the keyboard input as "simple" MIDI. This all works very well with the QuNexus. The goal here is to use both keyboards together so I'll have more than s 2-octave range to work with (each kbd is 2 octaves, but they can each be shifted up and down). If this becomes too complicated, I can always fall back on the old trick of using tape or weights to hold done the keys on the Nanokey. Or just get another QuNexus (or a larger keyboard). :-) I was just hoping that there might be some built-in way to handle CC 64/66 in Csound that I'd missed. 

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 3:09 PM Richard <[hidden email]> wrote:

Maybe you could turn midi into OSC, to have more control over what is happening. Of course the receiving instruments should have to be modified to react to OSC in stead of midi...

just my 2 cents..

Richard


On 15/09/18 20:54, Dave Seidel wrote:
One of my MIDI keyboards is a QuNexus, which has a feature where it can toggle notes on or off. When this is enabled, one key press sends a note-on message, and the note-off message is not sent until the key is pressed again. Given that I tend to make a lot of drones, I like this feature. 

I recently got a Korg Nanokey2, which lacks this feature. It does have a sustain button, which is apparently more standard: it sends CC 64, but the keyboard still sends a note-off when the key is released. I guess that most MIDI systems just handle this appropriately. But how should I handle CC 64 in sound code? Do I have to ignore note releases in this case and wait for the control value to change? This would make my code more complex. Is there an easier way? My code is already complex enough because it uses a handler instrument that responds to the note messages, but triggers other instrument instances to produce sound (for various reasons) and then turns the triggered instrument off when it sees the release.

- Dave
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Re: [Csnd] Handling MIDI sustain/sostenuto control messages

Arthur Hunkins
Dave -

Too bad you don't have the original nanoKEY or a nanoKEY Studio. The former has an individual toggle mode option for all keys; the latter has the same for all 8 pads.

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 4:42 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm already using OSC to control all other aspects of the program, but was hoping to keep the keyboard input as "simple" MIDI. This all works very well with the QuNexus. The goal here is to use both keyboards together so I'll have more than s 2-octave range to work with (each kbd is 2 octaves, but they can each be shifted up and down). If this becomes too complicated, I can always fall back on the old trick of using tape or weights to hold done the keys on the Nanokey. Or just get another QuNexus (or a larger keyboard). :-) I was just hoping that there might be some built-in way to handle CC 64/66 in Csound that I'd missed. 

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 3:09 PM Richard <[hidden email]> wrote:

Maybe you could turn midi into OSC, to have more control over what is happening. Of course the receiving instruments should have to be modified to react to OSC in stead of midi...

just my 2 cents..

Richard


On 15/09/18 20:54, Dave Seidel wrote:
One of my MIDI keyboards is a QuNexus, which has a feature where it can toggle notes on or off. When this is enabled, one key press sends a note-on message, and the note-off message is not sent until the key is pressed again. Given that I tend to make a lot of drones, I like this feature. 

I recently got a Korg Nanokey2, which lacks this feature. It does have a sustain button, which is apparently more standard: it sends CC 64, but the keyboard still sends a note-off when the key is released. I guess that most MIDI systems just handle this appropriately. But how should I handle CC 64 in sound code? Do I have to ignore note releases in this case and wait for the control value to change? This would make my code more complex. Is there an easier way? My code is already complex enough because it uses a handler instrument that responds to the note messages, but triggers other instrument instances to produce sound (for various reasons) and then turns the triggered instrument off when it sees the release.

- Dave
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Re: [Csnd] Handling MIDI sustain/sostenuto control messages

Dave Seidel
Wow, Art, as it happens I also have the original nanokey, but didn't realize it had this capability!

However -- I just tried setting all the keys to "Toggle" in the Kontrol editor, and they all show "Tgl", but according to MIDI-OX I am still getting note-off events when I release a key. What am I doing wrong?

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 6:48 PM Arthur Hunkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dave -

Too bad you don't have the original nanoKEY or a nanoKEY Studio. The former has an individual toggle mode option for all keys; the latter has the same for all 8 pads.

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 4:42 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm already using OSC to control all other aspects of the program, but was hoping to keep the keyboard input as "simple" MIDI. This all works very well with the QuNexus. The goal here is to use both keyboards together so I'll have more than s 2-octave range to work with (each kbd is 2 octaves, but they can each be shifted up and down). If this becomes too complicated, I can always fall back on the old trick of using tape or weights to hold done the keys on the Nanokey. Or just get another QuNexus (or a larger keyboard). :-) I was just hoping that there might be some built-in way to handle CC 64/66 in Csound that I'd missed. 

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 3:09 PM Richard <[hidden email]> wrote:

Maybe you could turn midi into OSC, to have more control over what is happening. Of course the receiving instruments should have to be modified to react to OSC in stead of midi...

just my 2 cents..

Richard


On 15/09/18 20:54, Dave Seidel wrote:
One of my MIDI keyboards is a QuNexus, which has a feature where it can toggle notes on or off. When this is enabled, one key press sends a note-on message, and the note-off message is not sent until the key is pressed again. Given that I tend to make a lot of drones, I like this feature. 

I recently got a Korg Nanokey2, which lacks this feature. It does have a sustain button, which is apparently more standard: it sends CC 64, but the keyboard still sends a note-off when the key is released. I guess that most MIDI systems just handle this appropriately. But how should I handle CC 64 in sound code? Do I have to ignore note releases in this case and wait for the control value to change? This would make my code more complex. Is there an easier way? My code is already complex enough because it uses a handler instrument that responds to the note messages, but triggers other instrument instances to produce sound (for various reasons) and then turns the triggered instrument off when it sees the release.

- Dave
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Re: [Csnd] Handling MIDI sustain/sostenuto control messages

Tarmo Johannes-3
Can you just write an master instrument in Csound that is activated by midi and starts playind instruments on noteon and ignores noteoffs?

Greetings,
Tarmo

16.09.2018 5:16 kirjutas kuupäeval "Dave Seidel" <[hidden email]>:
Wow, Art, as it happens I also have the original nanokey, but didn't realize it had this capability!

However -- I just tried setting all the keys to "Toggle" in the Kontrol editor, and they all show "Tgl", but according to MIDI-OX I am still getting note-off events when I release a key. What am I doing wrong?

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 6:48 PM Arthur Hunkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dave -

Too bad you don't have the original nanoKEY or a nanoKEY Studio. The former has an individual toggle mode option for all keys; the latter has the same for all 8 pads.

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 4:42 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm already using OSC to control all other aspects of the program, but was hoping to keep the keyboard input as "simple" MIDI. This all works very well with the QuNexus. The goal here is to use both keyboards together so I'll have more than s 2-octave range to work with (each kbd is 2 octaves, but they can each be shifted up and down). If this becomes too complicated, I can always fall back on the old trick of using tape or weights to hold done the keys on the Nanokey. Or just get another QuNexus (or a larger keyboard). :-) I was just hoping that there might be some built-in way to handle CC 64/66 in Csound that I'd missed. 

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 3:09 PM Richard <[hidden email]> wrote:

Maybe you could turn midi into OSC, to have more control over what is happening. Of course the receiving instruments should have to be modified to react to OSC in stead of midi...

just my 2 cents..

Richard


On 15/09/18 20:54, Dave Seidel wrote:
One of my MIDI keyboards is a QuNexus, which has a feature where it can toggle notes on or off. When this is enabled, one key press sends a note-on message, and the note-off message is not sent until the key is pressed again. Given that I tend to make a lot of drones, I like this feature. 

I recently got a Korg Nanokey2, which lacks this feature. It does have a sustain button, which is apparently more standard: it sends CC 64, but the keyboard still sends a note-off when the key is released. I guess that most MIDI systems just handle this appropriately. But how should I handle CC 64 in sound code? Do I have to ignore note releases in this case and wait for the control value to change? This would make my code more complex. Is there an easier way? My code is already complex enough because it uses a handler instrument that responds to the note messages, but triggers other instrument instances to produce sound (for various reasons) and then turns the triggered instrument off when it sees the release.

- Dave
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Re: [Csnd] Handling MIDI sustain/sostenuto control messages

Dave Seidel
Hi Tarmo,

I already have a master instrument that is MIDI-triggered, and it could be made it ignore note-offs, but then how would I know which note to release when the CC 64 is toggled off (unless I released all of them)? But it would be tricky to support both the QuNexus and the nanoKEY unless I can make them behave in the same way. Following Art's suggestion, I see that it should be possible to configure the nanoKEY to toggle notes (I presume in a way similar to the QuNexus), but for some reason this is not working for me.

- Dave

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 3:17 AM Tarmo Johannes <[hidden email]> wrote:
Can you just write an master instrument in Csound that is activated by midi and starts playind instruments on noteon and ignores noteoffs?

Greetings,
Tarmo

16.09.2018 5:16 kirjutas kuupäeval "Dave Seidel" <[hidden email]>:
Wow, Art, as it happens I also have the original nanokey, but didn't realize it had this capability!

However -- I just tried setting all the keys to "Toggle" in the Kontrol editor, and they all show "Tgl", but according to MIDI-OX I am still getting note-off events when I release a key. What am I doing wrong?

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 6:48 PM Arthur Hunkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dave -

Too bad you don't have the original nanoKEY or a nanoKEY Studio. The former has an individual toggle mode option for all keys; the latter has the same for all 8 pads.

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 4:42 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm already using OSC to control all other aspects of the program, but was hoping to keep the keyboard input as "simple" MIDI. This all works very well with the QuNexus. The goal here is to use both keyboards together so I'll have more than s 2-octave range to work with (each kbd is 2 octaves, but they can each be shifted up and down). If this becomes too complicated, I can always fall back on the old trick of using tape or weights to hold done the keys on the Nanokey. Or just get another QuNexus (or a larger keyboard). :-) I was just hoping that there might be some built-in way to handle CC 64/66 in Csound that I'd missed. 

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 3:09 PM Richard <[hidden email]> wrote:

Maybe you could turn midi into OSC, to have more control over what is happening. Of course the receiving instruments should have to be modified to react to OSC in stead of midi...

just my 2 cents..

Richard


On 15/09/18 20:54, Dave Seidel wrote:
One of my MIDI keyboards is a QuNexus, which has a feature where it can toggle notes on or off. When this is enabled, one key press sends a note-on message, and the note-off message is not sent until the key is pressed again. Given that I tend to make a lot of drones, I like this feature. 

I recently got a Korg Nanokey2, which lacks this feature. It does have a sustain button, which is apparently more standard: it sends CC 64, but the keyboard still sends a note-off when the key is released. I guess that most MIDI systems just handle this appropriately. But how should I handle CC 64 in sound code? Do I have to ignore note releases in this case and wait for the control value to change? This would make my code more complex. Is there an easier way? My code is already complex enough because it uses a handler instrument that responds to the note messages, but triggers other instrument instances to produce sound (for various reasons) and then turns the triggered instrument off when it sees the release.

- Dave
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Re: [Csnd] Handling MIDI sustain/sostenuto control messages

Dave Seidel
The "toggle" setting does seem to work when the nanoKEY is in CC Mode (i.e., note keys send CC instead of note-on/note-off) -- perhaps this is a built-in limitation.

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 9:10 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Tarmo,

I already have a master instrument that is MIDI-triggered, and it could be made it ignore note-offs, but then how would I know which note to release when the CC 64 is toggled off (unless I released all of them)? But it would be tricky to support both the QuNexus and the nanoKEY unless I can make them behave in the same way. Following Art's suggestion, I see that it should be possible to configure the nanoKEY to toggle notes (I presume in a way similar to the QuNexus), but for some reason this is not working for me.

- Dave

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 3:17 AM Tarmo Johannes <[hidden email]> wrote:
Can you just write an master instrument in Csound that is activated by midi and starts playind instruments on noteon and ignores noteoffs?

Greetings,
Tarmo

16.09.2018 5:16 kirjutas kuupäeval "Dave Seidel" <[hidden email]>:
Wow, Art, as it happens I also have the original nanokey, but didn't realize it had this capability!

However -- I just tried setting all the keys to "Toggle" in the Kontrol editor, and they all show "Tgl", but according to MIDI-OX I am still getting note-off events when I release a key. What am I doing wrong?

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 6:48 PM Arthur Hunkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dave -

Too bad you don't have the original nanoKEY or a nanoKEY Studio. The former has an individual toggle mode option for all keys; the latter has the same for all 8 pads.

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 4:42 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm already using OSC to control all other aspects of the program, but was hoping to keep the keyboard input as "simple" MIDI. This all works very well with the QuNexus. The goal here is to use both keyboards together so I'll have more than s 2-octave range to work with (each kbd is 2 octaves, but they can each be shifted up and down). If this becomes too complicated, I can always fall back on the old trick of using tape or weights to hold done the keys on the Nanokey. Or just get another QuNexus (or a larger keyboard). :-) I was just hoping that there might be some built-in way to handle CC 64/66 in Csound that I'd missed. 

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 3:09 PM Richard <[hidden email]> wrote:

Maybe you could turn midi into OSC, to have more control over what is happening. Of course the receiving instruments should have to be modified to react to OSC in stead of midi...

just my 2 cents..

Richard


On 15/09/18 20:54, Dave Seidel wrote:
One of my MIDI keyboards is a QuNexus, which has a feature where it can toggle notes on or off. When this is enabled, one key press sends a note-on message, and the note-off message is not sent until the key is pressed again. Given that I tend to make a lot of drones, I like this feature. 

I recently got a Korg Nanokey2, which lacks this feature. It does have a sustain button, which is apparently more standard: it sends CC 64, but the keyboard still sends a note-off when the key is released. I guess that most MIDI systems just handle this appropriately. But how should I handle CC 64 in sound code? Do I have to ignore note releases in this case and wait for the control value to change? This would make my code more complex. Is there an easier way? My code is already complex enough because it uses a handler instrument that responds to the note messages, but triggers other instrument instances to produce sound (for various reasons) and then turns the triggered instrument off when it sees the release.

- Dave
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Re: [Csnd] Handling MIDI sustain/sostenuto control messages

00000008a49663bc-dmarc-request
just an idea: a global ftgen long 128 containing note state (0 off 1 on), with an always on instrument that reads only note on (keyboard press) midiin and toggle the instrument on or off.

ginotestate ftgen 0,0, 128,-2, 0

instr 1;alwayson

kstatus, kchan, kdata1, kdata2 midiin
if kstatus == 144 then
    kstatus tab kdata1, ginotestate
    if kstatus == 1 then
        event inst_audio + 0.001 *  kdata1, 0, -1
        tablew k(0), kdata1, ginotestate
    else
        event -1 * (inst_audio + 0.001 * kdata1), 0, -1
        tablew k(-1), kdata1, ginotestate
    endif
endif
endin

> Il 16 settembre 2018 alle 15.19 Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>
> The "toggle" setting does seem to work when the nanoKEY is in CC Mode (i.e., note keys send CC instead of note-on/note-off) -- perhaps this is a built-in limitation.
>
> On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 9:10 AM Dave Seidel < [hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi Tarmo,
> >
> > I already have a master instrument that is MIDI-triggered, and it could be made it ignore note-offs, but then how would I know which note to release when the CC 64 is toggled off (unless I released all of them)? But it would be tricky to support both the QuNexus and the nanoKEY unless I can make them behave in the same way. Following Art's suggestion, I see that it should be possible to configure the nanoKEY to toggle notes (I presume in a way similar to the QuNexus), but for some reason this is not working for me.
> >
> > - Dave
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 3:17 AM Tarmo Johannes < [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Can you just write an master instrument in Csound that is activated by midi and starts playind instruments on noteon and ignores noteoffs?
> > >
> > > Greetings,
> > > Tarmo
> > >
> > > 16.09.2018 5:16 kirjutas kuupäeval "Dave Seidel" < [hidden email]>:
> > >
> > > > Wow, Art, as it happens I also have the original nanokey, but didn't realize it had this capability!
> > > >
> > > > However -- I just tried setting all the keys to "Toggle" in the Kontrol editor, and they all show "Tgl", but according to MIDI-OX I am still getting note-off events when I release a key. What am I doing wrong?
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 6:48 PM Arthur Hunkins < [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > Dave -
> > > > >
> > > > > Too bad you don't have the original nanoKEY or a nanoKEY Studio. The former has an individual toggle mode option for all keys; the latter has the same for all 8 pads.
> > > > >
> > > > > Art Hunkins
> > > > > http://www.arthunkins.com
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 4:42 PM Dave Seidel < [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > > I'm already using OSC to control all other aspects of the program, but was hoping to keep the keyboard input as "simple" MIDI. This all works very well with the QuNexus. The goal here is to use both keyboards together so I'll have more than s 2-octave range to work with (each kbd is 2 octaves, but they can each be shifted up and down). If this becomes too complicated, I can always fall back on the old trick of using tape or weights to hold done the keys on the Nanokey. Or just get another QuNexus (or a larger keyboard). :-) I was just hoping that there might be some built-in way to handle CC 64/66 in Csound that I'd missed. 
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 3:09 PM Richard < [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > > > Maybe you could turn midi into OSC, to have more control over what is happening. Of course the receiving instruments should have to be modified to react to OSC in stead of midi...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > just my 2 cents..
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Richard
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 15/09/18 20:54, Dave Seidel wrote:
> > > > > > > > One of my MIDI keyboards is a QuNexus, which has a feature where it can toggle notes on or off. When this is enabled, one key press sends a note-on message, and the note-off message is not sent until the key is pressed again. Given that I tend to make a lot of drones, I like this feature. 
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I recently got a Korg Nanokey2, which lacks this feature. It does have a sustain button, which is apparently more standard: it sends CC 64, but the keyboard still sends a note-off when the key is released. I guess that most MIDI systems just handle this appropriately. But how should I handle CC 64 in sound code? Do I have to ignore note releases in this case and wait for the control value to change? This would make my code more complex. Is there an easier way? My code is already complex enough because it uses a handler instrument that responds to the note messages, but triggers other instrument instances to produce sound (for various reasons) and then turns the triggered instrument off when it sees the release.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > - Dave
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://mysterybear.net
> > > > > > https://soundcloud.com/mysterybear
> > > > > > https://mysterybear.bandcamp.com
> > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo0--3uN5ycq_aupZXskBgA 
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://recordings.irritablehedgehog.com/album/dave-seidel-60-hz
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> > > > >
> > > > > Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > http://mysterybear.net
> > > > https://soundcloud.com/mysterybear
> > > > https://mysterybear.bandcamp.com
> > > > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo0--3uN5ycq_aupZXskBgA 
> > > >
> > > > http://recordings.irritablehedgehog.com/album/dave-seidel-60-hz
> > > >
> > > > Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> > >
> > > Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >
> > --
> >
> > http://mysterybear.net
> > https://soundcloud.com/mysterybear
> > https://mysterybear.bandcamp.com
> > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo0--3uN5ycq_aupZXskBgA 
> >
> > http://recordings.irritablehedgehog.com/album/dave-seidel-60-hz
>
> --
>
> http://mysterybear.net
> https://soundcloud.com/mysterybear
> https://mysterybear.bandcamp.com
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo0--3uN5ycq_aupZXskBgA 
>
> http://recordings.irritablehedgehog.com/album/dave-seidel-60-hz
>
> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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Re: [Csnd] Handling MIDI sustain/sostenuto control messages

Dave Seidel
Interesting thought, thanks, Worth considering. Ought to work with an array as well as a table (not sure which is more efficient).
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Re: [Csnd] Handling MIDI sustain/sostenuto control messages

Arthur Hunkins
In reply to this post by Dave Seidel
Dave -

I've a nanoKEY and have played with it today. It turns out that in KEY mode, it's not at all programmable - and is fixed in momentary mode. However, there is a CC mode which is programmable in a number of ways (as you've seen) - including a toggle mode for each key.

Bottom line: keys only toggle in CC mode! Could you work with CC mode instead of Note mode? Of course, only a fixed velocity (per key) would be available.

Art H.


On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 9:11 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Tarmo,

I already have a master instrument that is MIDI-triggered, and it could be made it ignore note-offs, but then how would I know which note to release when the CC 64 is toggled off (unless I released all of them)? But it would be tricky to support both the QuNexus and the nanoKEY unless I can make them behave in the same way. Following Art's suggestion, I see that it should be possible to configure the nanoKEY to toggle notes (I presume in a way similar to the QuNexus), but for some reason this is not working for me.

- Dave

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 3:17 AM Tarmo Johannes <[hidden email]> wrote:
Can you just write an master instrument in Csound that is activated by midi and starts playind instruments on noteon and ignores noteoffs?

Greetings,
Tarmo

16.09.2018 5:16 kirjutas kuupäeval "Dave Seidel" <[hidden email]>:
Wow, Art, as it happens I also have the original nanokey, but didn't realize it had this capability!

However -- I just tried setting all the keys to "Toggle" in the Kontrol editor, and they all show "Tgl", but according to MIDI-OX I am still getting note-off events when I release a key. What am I doing wrong?

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 6:48 PM Arthur Hunkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dave -

Too bad you don't have the original nanoKEY or a nanoKEY Studio. The former has an individual toggle mode option for all keys; the latter has the same for all 8 pads.

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 4:42 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm already using OSC to control all other aspects of the program, but was hoping to keep the keyboard input as "simple" MIDI. This all works very well with the QuNexus. The goal here is to use both keyboards together so I'll have more than s 2-octave range to work with (each kbd is 2 octaves, but they can each be shifted up and down). If this becomes too complicated, I can always fall back on the old trick of using tape or weights to hold done the keys on the Nanokey. Or just get another QuNexus (or a larger keyboard). :-) I was just hoping that there might be some built-in way to handle CC 64/66 in Csound that I'd missed. 

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 3:09 PM Richard <[hidden email]> wrote:

Maybe you could turn midi into OSC, to have more control over what is happening. Of course the receiving instruments should have to be modified to react to OSC in stead of midi...

just my 2 cents..

Richard


On 15/09/18 20:54, Dave Seidel wrote:
One of my MIDI keyboards is a QuNexus, which has a feature where it can toggle notes on or off. When this is enabled, one key press sends a note-on message, and the note-off message is not sent until the key is pressed again. Given that I tend to make a lot of drones, I like this feature. 

I recently got a Korg Nanokey2, which lacks this feature. It does have a sustain button, which is apparently more standard: it sends CC 64, but the keyboard still sends a note-off when the key is released. I guess that most MIDI systems just handle this appropriately. But how should I handle CC 64 in sound code? Do I have to ignore note releases in this case and wait for the control value to change? This would make my code more complex. Is there an easier way? My code is already complex enough because it uses a handler instrument that responds to the note messages, but triggers other instrument instances to produce sound (for various reasons) and then turns the triggered instrument off when it sees the release.

- Dave
Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here


--
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--
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Re: [Csnd] Handling MIDI sustain/sostenuto control messages

Dave Seidel
Ah, that makes sense. I suppose might I might be able to use it in CC mode, but then I'd lose the utility of the Oct+/- buttons (which is important for me), and it would be a bit tedious to pragram each key to behave like a note. I'm probably better off using something to weight the keys down. :-). Thanks for looking into it, Art. 

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018, 5:02 PM Arthur Hunkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dave -

I've a nanoKEY and have played with it today. It turns out that in KEY mode, it's not at all programmable - and is fixed in momentary mode. However, there is a CC mode which is programmable in a number of ways (as you've seen) - including a toggle mode for each key.

Bottom line: keys only toggle in CC mode! Could you work with CC mode instead of Note mode? Of course, only a fixed velocity (per key) would be available.

Art H.


On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 9:11 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Tarmo,

I already have a master instrument that is MIDI-triggered, and it could be made it ignore note-offs, but then how would I know which note to release when the CC 64 is toggled off (unless I released all of them)? But it would be tricky to support both the QuNexus and the nanoKEY unless I can make them behave in the same way. Following Art's suggestion, I see that it should be possible to configure the nanoKEY to toggle notes (I presume in a way similar to the QuNexus), but for some reason this is not working for me.

- Dave

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 3:17 AM Tarmo Johannes <[hidden email]> wrote:
Can you just write an master instrument in Csound that is activated by midi and starts playind instruments on noteon and ignores noteoffs?

Greetings,
Tarmo

16.09.2018 5:16 kirjutas kuupäeval "Dave Seidel" <[hidden email]>:
Wow, Art, as it happens I also have the original nanokey, but didn't realize it had this capability!

However -- I just tried setting all the keys to "Toggle" in the Kontrol editor, and they all show "Tgl", but according to MIDI-OX I am still getting note-off events when I release a key. What am I doing wrong?

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 6:48 PM Arthur Hunkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dave -

Too bad you don't have the original nanoKEY or a nanoKEY Studio. The former has an individual toggle mode option for all keys; the latter has the same for all 8 pads.

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 4:42 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm already using OSC to control all other aspects of the program, but was hoping to keep the keyboard input as "simple" MIDI. This all works very well with the QuNexus. The goal here is to use both keyboards together so I'll have more than s 2-octave range to work with (each kbd is 2 octaves, but they can each be shifted up and down). If this becomes too complicated, I can always fall back on the old trick of using tape or weights to hold done the keys on the Nanokey. Or just get another QuNexus (or a larger keyboard). :-) I was just hoping that there might be some built-in way to handle CC 64/66 in Csound that I'd missed. 

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 3:09 PM Richard <[hidden email]> wrote:

Maybe you could turn midi into OSC, to have more control over what is happening. Of course the receiving instruments should have to be modified to react to OSC in stead of midi...

just my 2 cents..

Richard


On 15/09/18 20:54, Dave Seidel wrote:
One of my MIDI keyboards is a QuNexus, which has a feature where it can toggle notes on or off. When this is enabled, one key press sends a note-on message, and the note-off message is not sent until the key is pressed again. Given that I tend to make a lot of drones, I like this feature. 

I recently got a Korg Nanokey2, which lacks this feature. It does have a sustain button, which is apparently more standard: it sends CC 64, but the keyboard still sends a note-off when the key is released. I guess that most MIDI systems just handle this appropriately. But how should I handle CC 64 in sound code? Do I have to ignore note releases in this case and wait for the control value to change? This would make my code more complex. Is there an easier way? My code is already complex enough because it uses a handler instrument that responds to the note messages, but triggers other instrument instances to produce sound (for various reasons) and then turns the triggered instrument off when it sees the release.

- Dave
Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here


--
Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here


--
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Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here


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Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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Re: [Csnd] Handling MIDI sustain/sostenuto control messages

Arthur Hunkins
Dave -

Yes, I see what you mean.

Another idea: it sounds like you might use a (fairly large?) set of buttons or pads (available on many controllers - such as the nanoKONTROL Studio and nanoKONTROL 2). These typically allow for either note or CC mode, with an option of momentary or toggle operation. Once programmed, settings could typically be saved by the editor as a patch or scene, and easily reloaded by the editor (if not stored on the controller itself).

Art H.


On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 5:19 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ah, that makes sense. I suppose might I might be able to use it in CC mode, but then I'd lose the utility of the Oct+/- buttons (which is important for me), and it would be a bit tedious to pragram each key to behave like a note. I'm probably better off using something to weight the keys down. :-). Thanks for looking into it, Art. 

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018, 5:02 PM Arthur Hunkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dave -

I've a nanoKEY and have played with it today. It turns out that in KEY mode, it's not at all programmable - and is fixed in momentary mode. However, there is a CC mode which is programmable in a number of ways (as you've seen) - including a toggle mode for each key.

Bottom line: keys only toggle in CC mode! Could you work with CC mode instead of Note mode? Of course, only a fixed velocity (per key) would be available.

Art H.


On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 9:11 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Tarmo,

I already have a master instrument that is MIDI-triggered, and it could be made it ignore note-offs, but then how would I know which note to release when the CC 64 is toggled off (unless I released all of them)? But it would be tricky to support both the QuNexus and the nanoKEY unless I can make them behave in the same way. Following Art's suggestion, I see that it should be possible to configure the nanoKEY to toggle notes (I presume in a way similar to the QuNexus), but for some reason this is not working for me.

- Dave

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 3:17 AM Tarmo Johannes <[hidden email]> wrote:
Can you just write an master instrument in Csound that is activated by midi and starts playind instruments on noteon and ignores noteoffs?

Greetings,
Tarmo

16.09.2018 5:16 kirjutas kuupäeval "Dave Seidel" <[hidden email]>:
Wow, Art, as it happens I also have the original nanokey, but didn't realize it had this capability!

However -- I just tried setting all the keys to "Toggle" in the Kontrol editor, and they all show "Tgl", but according to MIDI-OX I am still getting note-off events when I release a key. What am I doing wrong?

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 6:48 PM Arthur Hunkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dave -

Too bad you don't have the original nanoKEY or a nanoKEY Studio. The former has an individual toggle mode option for all keys; the latter has the same for all 8 pads.

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 4:42 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm already using OSC to control all other aspects of the program, but was hoping to keep the keyboard input as "simple" MIDI. This all works very well with the QuNexus. The goal here is to use both keyboards together so I'll have more than s 2-octave range to work with (each kbd is 2 octaves, but they can each be shifted up and down). If this becomes too complicated, I can always fall back on the old trick of using tape or weights to hold done the keys on the Nanokey. Or just get another QuNexus (or a larger keyboard). :-) I was just hoping that there might be some built-in way to handle CC 64/66 in Csound that I'd missed. 

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 3:09 PM Richard <[hidden email]> wrote:

Maybe you could turn midi into OSC, to have more control over what is happening. Of course the receiving instruments should have to be modified to react to OSC in stead of midi...

just my 2 cents..

Richard


On 15/09/18 20:54, Dave Seidel wrote:
One of my MIDI keyboards is a QuNexus, which has a feature where it can toggle notes on or off. When this is enabled, one key press sends a note-on message, and the note-off message is not sent until the key is pressed again. Given that I tend to make a lot of drones, I like this feature. 

I recently got a Korg Nanokey2, which lacks this feature. It does have a sustain button, which is apparently more standard: it sends CC 64, but the keyboard still sends a note-off when the key is released. I guess that most MIDI systems just handle this appropriately. But how should I handle CC 64 in sound code? Do I have to ignore note releases in this case and wait for the control value to change? This would make my code more complex. Is there an easier way? My code is already complex enough because it uses a handler instrument that responds to the note messages, but triggers other instrument instances to produce sound (for various reasons) and then turns the triggered instrument off when it sees the release.

- Dave
Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here


--
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Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here


--
Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here


--
Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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Re: [Csnd] Handling MIDI sustain/sostenuto control messages

Dave Seidel
I *was* using a lot of controls, with the Launch Control XL, but have now switched to using OSC for all of those functions with an interface written in Lemur running on a tablet. Once I got the hang of Lemur, I really like being able to specify the UI exactly to my needs, and can even have multiple "pages". The flexibility and the higher resolution counteracts the loss of physical controls (which I prefer overall, but you can't have everything). Also, my setup has gotten large enough to fill a tabletop, so anytime I can substitute something smaller and lighter (and multifunctional), it's a plus. I'm running Csound on a headless Raspberry Pi, so I needed the tablet anyway to control its operation. I'm using a Pisound as part of the Pi, and it has a very nice Bluetooth interface. So I am now using MIDI only for keyboard input. 

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018, 5:56 PM Arthur Hunkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dave -

Yes, I see what you mean.

Another idea: it sounds like you might use a (fairly large?) set of buttons or pads (available on many controllers - such as the nanoKONTROL Studio and nanoKONTROL 2). These typically allow for either note or CC mode, with an option of momentary or toggle operation. Once programmed, settings could typically be saved by the editor as a patch or scene, and easily reloaded by the editor (if not stored on the controller itself).

Art H.


On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 5:19 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ah, that makes sense. I suppose might I might be able to use it in CC mode, but then I'd lose the utility of the Oct+/- buttons (which is important for me), and it would be a bit tedious to pragram each key to behave like a note. I'm probably better off using something to weight the keys down. :-). Thanks for looking into it, Art. 

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018, 5:02 PM Arthur Hunkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dave -

I've a nanoKEY and have played with it today. It turns out that in KEY mode, it's not at all programmable - and is fixed in momentary mode. However, there is a CC mode which is programmable in a number of ways (as you've seen) - including a toggle mode for each key.

Bottom line: keys only toggle in CC mode! Could you work with CC mode instead of Note mode? Of course, only a fixed velocity (per key) would be available.

Art H.


On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 9:11 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Tarmo,

I already have a master instrument that is MIDI-triggered, and it could be made it ignore note-offs, but then how would I know which note to release when the CC 64 is toggled off (unless I released all of them)? But it would be tricky to support both the QuNexus and the nanoKEY unless I can make them behave in the same way. Following Art's suggestion, I see that it should be possible to configure the nanoKEY to toggle notes (I presume in a way similar to the QuNexus), but for some reason this is not working for me.

- Dave

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 3:17 AM Tarmo Johannes <[hidden email]> wrote:
Can you just write an master instrument in Csound that is activated by midi and starts playind instruments on noteon and ignores noteoffs?

Greetings,
Tarmo

16.09.2018 5:16 kirjutas kuupäeval "Dave Seidel" <[hidden email]>:
Wow, Art, as it happens I also have the original nanokey, but didn't realize it had this capability!

However -- I just tried setting all the keys to "Toggle" in the Kontrol editor, and they all show "Tgl", but according to MIDI-OX I am still getting note-off events when I release a key. What am I doing wrong?

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 6:48 PM Arthur Hunkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dave -

Too bad you don't have the original nanoKEY or a nanoKEY Studio. The former has an individual toggle mode option for all keys; the latter has the same for all 8 pads.

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 4:42 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm already using OSC to control all other aspects of the program, but was hoping to keep the keyboard input as "simple" MIDI. This all works very well with the QuNexus. The goal here is to use both keyboards together so I'll have more than s 2-octave range to work with (each kbd is 2 octaves, but they can each be shifted up and down). If this becomes too complicated, I can always fall back on the old trick of using tape or weights to hold done the keys on the Nanokey. Or just get another QuNexus (or a larger keyboard). :-) I was just hoping that there might be some built-in way to handle CC 64/66 in Csound that I'd missed. 

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 3:09 PM Richard <[hidden email]> wrote:

Maybe you could turn midi into OSC, to have more control over what is happening. Of course the receiving instruments should have to be modified to react to OSC in stead of midi...

just my 2 cents..

Richard


On 15/09/18 20:54, Dave Seidel wrote:
One of my MIDI keyboards is a QuNexus, which has a feature where it can toggle notes on or off. When this is enabled, one key press sends a note-on message, and the note-off message is not sent until the key is pressed again. Given that I tend to make a lot of drones, I like this feature. 

I recently got a Korg Nanokey2, which lacks this feature. It does have a sustain button, which is apparently more standard: it sends CC 64, but the keyboard still sends a note-off when the key is released. I guess that most MIDI systems just handle this appropriately. But how should I handle CC 64 in sound code? Do I have to ignore note releases in this case and wait for the control value to change? This would make my code more complex. Is there an easier way? My code is already complex enough because it uses a handler instrument that responds to the note messages, but triggers other instrument instances to produce sound (for various reasons) and then turns the triggered instrument off when it sees the release.

- Dave
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Re: [Csnd] Handling MIDI sustain/sostenuto control messages

Arthur Hunkins
All fascinating - Lemur, OSC, Bluetooth, Pi! I presume you're working (mainly) in real time.

(I guess tablets wouldn't have enough real estate for any more buttons.)

Interested in learning the solution you come up with. Happy exploring!

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 6:41 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
I *was* using a lot of controls, with the Launch Control XL, but have now switched to using OSC for all of those functions with an interface written in Lemur running on a tablet. Once I got the hang of Lemur, I really like being able to specify the UI exactly to my needs, and can even have multiple "pages". The flexibility and the higher resolution counteracts the loss of physical controls (which I prefer overall, but you can't have everything). Also, my setup has gotten large enough to fill a tabletop, so anytime I can substitute something smaller and lighter (and multifunctional), it's a plus. I'm running Csound on a headless Raspberry Pi, so I needed the tablet anyway to control its operation. I'm using a Pisound as part of the Pi, and it has a very nice Bluetooth interface. So I am now using MIDI only for keyboard input. 

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018, 5:56 PM Arthur Hunkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dave -

Yes, I see what you mean.

Another idea: it sounds like you might use a (fairly large?) set of buttons or pads (available on many controllers - such as the nanoKONTROL Studio and nanoKONTROL 2). These typically allow for either note or CC mode, with an option of momentary or toggle operation. Once programmed, settings could typically be saved by the editor as a patch or scene, and easily reloaded by the editor (if not stored on the controller itself).

Art H.


On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 5:19 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ah, that makes sense. I suppose might I might be able to use it in CC mode, but then I'd lose the utility of the Oct+/- buttons (which is important for me), and it would be a bit tedious to pragram each key to behave like a note. I'm probably better off using something to weight the keys down. :-). Thanks for looking into it, Art. 

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018, 5:02 PM Arthur Hunkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dave -

I've a nanoKEY and have played with it today. It turns out that in KEY mode, it's not at all programmable - and is fixed in momentary mode. However, there is a CC mode which is programmable in a number of ways (as you've seen) - including a toggle mode for each key.

Bottom line: keys only toggle in CC mode! Could you work with CC mode instead of Note mode? Of course, only a fixed velocity (per key) would be available.

Art H.


On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 9:11 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Tarmo,

I already have a master instrument that is MIDI-triggered, and it could be made it ignore note-offs, but then how would I know which note to release when the CC 64 is toggled off (unless I released all of them)? But it would be tricky to support both the QuNexus and the nanoKEY unless I can make them behave in the same way. Following Art's suggestion, I see that it should be possible to configure the nanoKEY to toggle notes (I presume in a way similar to the QuNexus), but for some reason this is not working for me.

- Dave

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 3:17 AM Tarmo Johannes <[hidden email]> wrote:
Can you just write an master instrument in Csound that is activated by midi and starts playind instruments on noteon and ignores noteoffs?

Greetings,
Tarmo

16.09.2018 5:16 kirjutas kuupäeval "Dave Seidel" <[hidden email]>:
Wow, Art, as it happens I also have the original nanokey, but didn't realize it had this capability!

However -- I just tried setting all the keys to "Toggle" in the Kontrol editor, and they all show "Tgl", but according to MIDI-OX I am still getting note-off events when I release a key. What am I doing wrong?

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 6:48 PM Arthur Hunkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dave -

Too bad you don't have the original nanoKEY or a nanoKEY Studio. The former has an individual toggle mode option for all keys; the latter has the same for all 8 pads.

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 4:42 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm already using OSC to control all other aspects of the program, but was hoping to keep the keyboard input as "simple" MIDI. This all works very well with the QuNexus. The goal here is to use both keyboards together so I'll have more than s 2-octave range to work with (each kbd is 2 octaves, but they can each be shifted up and down). If this becomes too complicated, I can always fall back on the old trick of using tape or weights to hold done the keys on the Nanokey. Or just get another QuNexus (or a larger keyboard). :-) I was just hoping that there might be some built-in way to handle CC 64/66 in Csound that I'd missed. 

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 3:09 PM Richard <[hidden email]> wrote:

Maybe you could turn midi into OSC, to have more control over what is happening. Of course the receiving instruments should have to be modified to react to OSC in stead of midi...

just my 2 cents..

Richard


On 15/09/18 20:54, Dave Seidel wrote:
One of my MIDI keyboards is a QuNexus, which has a feature where it can toggle notes on or off. When this is enabled, one key press sends a note-on message, and the note-off message is not sent until the key is pressed again. Given that I tend to make a lot of drones, I like this feature. 

I recently got a Korg Nanokey2, which lacks this feature. It does have a sustain button, which is apparently more standard: it sends CC 64, but the keyboard still sends a note-off when the key is released. I guess that most MIDI systems just handle this appropriately. But how should I handle CC 64 in sound code? Do I have to ignore note releases in this case and wait for the control value to change? This would make my code more complex. Is there an easier way? My code is already complex enough because it uses a handler instrument that responds to the note messages, but triggers other instrument instances to produce sound (for various reasons) and then turns the triggered instrument off when it sees the release.

- Dave
Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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Re: [Csnd] Handling MIDI sustain/sostenuto control messages

joachim-3
In reply to this post by Dave Seidel
i think it should be fairly easy to program your own toggle mode in your
csound code, in particular when you already have a master instrument
which receives all midi, with a code similar to the one marc (?)
suggested.  and then it works for all midi keyboard, and you can define
to switch to this mode freely.

i don't think that array or table approach will make and difference
here, as you perform it only when a key is pressed.

        joachim



On 16/09/18 18:28, Dave Seidel wrote:
> Interesting thought, thanks, Worth considering. Ought to work with an
> array as well as a table (not sure which is more efficient).
> Csound mailing list [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features
> can be posted here

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Re: [Csnd] Handling MIDI sustain/sostenuto control messages

Dave Seidel
In reply to this post by Arthur Hunkins
Yes, I'm working mostly in realtime mostly these days. Here's the project I've been developing: https://github.com/DaveSeidel/music-src/tree/master/implication-organ

There is actually plenty of room on a tablet screen (mine is not huge, about 10.1", but sufficient). I am using more controls than exists on the Launch Control XL if you include the second that third pages, which are for less-frequently accessed parameters. The project linked about has screen shots of the tablet interface (taken from my Google Pixel C, which is sadly defunct).

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 11:53 AM Arthur Hunkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
All fascinating - Lemur, OSC, Bluetooth, Pi! I presume you're working (mainly) in real time.

(I guess tablets wouldn't have enough real estate for any more buttons.)

Interested in learning the solution you come up with. Happy exploring!

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 6:41 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
I *was* using a lot of controls, with the Launch Control XL, but have now switched to using OSC for all of those functions with an interface written in Lemur running on a tablet. Once I got the hang of Lemur, I really like being able to specify the UI exactly to my needs, and can even have multiple "pages". The flexibility and the higher resolution counteracts the loss of physical controls (which I prefer overall, but you can't have everything). Also, my setup has gotten large enough to fill a tabletop, so anytime I can substitute something smaller and lighter (and multifunctional), it's a plus. I'm running Csound on a headless Raspberry Pi, so I needed the tablet anyway to control its operation. I'm using a Pisound as part of the Pi, and it has a very nice Bluetooth interface. So I am now using MIDI only for keyboard input. 

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018, 5:56 PM Arthur Hunkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dave -

Yes, I see what you mean.

Another idea: it sounds like you might use a (fairly large?) set of buttons or pads (available on many controllers - such as the nanoKONTROL Studio and nanoKONTROL 2). These typically allow for either note or CC mode, with an option of momentary or toggle operation. Once programmed, settings could typically be saved by the editor as a patch or scene, and easily reloaded by the editor (if not stored on the controller itself).

Art H.


On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 5:19 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ah, that makes sense. I suppose might I might be able to use it in CC mode, but then I'd lose the utility of the Oct+/- buttons (which is important for me), and it would be a bit tedious to pragram each key to behave like a note. I'm probably better off using something to weight the keys down. :-). Thanks for looking into it, Art. 

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018, 5:02 PM Arthur Hunkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dave -

I've a nanoKEY and have played with it today. It turns out that in KEY mode, it's not at all programmable - and is fixed in momentary mode. However, there is a CC mode which is programmable in a number of ways (as you've seen) - including a toggle mode for each key.

Bottom line: keys only toggle in CC mode! Could you work with CC mode instead of Note mode? Of course, only a fixed velocity (per key) would be available.

Art H.


On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 9:11 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Tarmo,

I already have a master instrument that is MIDI-triggered, and it could be made it ignore note-offs, but then how would I know which note to release when the CC 64 is toggled off (unless I released all of them)? But it would be tricky to support both the QuNexus and the nanoKEY unless I can make them behave in the same way. Following Art's suggestion, I see that it should be possible to configure the nanoKEY to toggle notes (I presume in a way similar to the QuNexus), but for some reason this is not working for me.

- Dave

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 3:17 AM Tarmo Johannes <[hidden email]> wrote:
Can you just write an master instrument in Csound that is activated by midi and starts playind instruments on noteon and ignores noteoffs?

Greetings,
Tarmo

16.09.2018 5:16 kirjutas kuupäeval "Dave Seidel" <[hidden email]>:
Wow, Art, as it happens I also have the original nanokey, but didn't realize it had this capability!

However -- I just tried setting all the keys to "Toggle" in the Kontrol editor, and they all show "Tgl", but according to MIDI-OX I am still getting note-off events when I release a key. What am I doing wrong?

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 6:48 PM Arthur Hunkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dave -

Too bad you don't have the original nanoKEY or a nanoKEY Studio. The former has an individual toggle mode option for all keys; the latter has the same for all 8 pads.

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 4:42 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm already using OSC to control all other aspects of the program, but was hoping to keep the keyboard input as "simple" MIDI. This all works very well with the QuNexus. The goal here is to use both keyboards together so I'll have more than s 2-octave range to work with (each kbd is 2 octaves, but they can each be shifted up and down). If this becomes too complicated, I can always fall back on the old trick of using tape or weights to hold done the keys on the Nanokey. Or just get another QuNexus (or a larger keyboard). :-) I was just hoping that there might be some built-in way to handle CC 64/66 in Csound that I'd missed. 

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 3:09 PM Richard <[hidden email]> wrote:

Maybe you could turn midi into OSC, to have more control over what is happening. Of course the receiving instruments should have to be modified to react to OSC in stead of midi...

just my 2 cents..

Richard


On 15/09/18 20:54, Dave Seidel wrote:
One of my MIDI keyboards is a QuNexus, which has a feature where it can toggle notes on or off. When this is enabled, one key press sends a note-on message, and the note-off message is not sent until the key is pressed again. Given that I tend to make a lot of drones, I like this feature. 

I recently got a Korg Nanokey2, which lacks this feature. It does have a sustain button, which is apparently more standard: it sends CC 64, but the keyboard still sends a note-off when the key is released. I guess that most MIDI systems just handle this appropriately. But how should I handle CC 64 in sound code? Do I have to ignore note releases in this case and wait for the control value to change? This would make my code more complex. Is there an easier way? My code is already complex enough because it uses a handler instrument that responds to the note messages, but triggers other instrument instances to produce sound (for various reasons) and then turns the triggered instrument off when it sees the release.

- Dave
Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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Re: [Csnd] Handling MIDI sustain/sostenuto control messages

Dave Seidel
In reply to this post by joachim-3
Thanks, Joachim, I may choose to go this route eventually.

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 12:04 PM joachim heintz <[hidden email]> wrote:
i think it should be fairly easy to program your own toggle mode in your
csound code, in particular when you already have a master instrument
which receives all midi, with a code similar to the one marc (?)
suggested.  and then it works for all midi keyboard, and you can define
to switch to this mode freely.

i don't think that array or table approach will make and difference
here, as you perform it only when a key is pressed.

        joachim



On 16/09/18 18:28, Dave Seidel wrote:
> Interesting thought, thanks, Worth considering. Ought to work with an
> array as well as a table (not sure which is more efficient).
> Csound mailing list [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features
> can be posted here

Csound mailing list
[hidden email]
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
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Re: [Csnd] Handling MIDI sustain/sostenuto control messages

Arthur Hunkins
In reply to this post by joachim-3
I agree with Joachim - and do what he suggests frequently.

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 12:04 PM joachim heintz <[hidden email]> wrote:
i think it should be fairly easy to program your own toggle mode in your
csound code, in particular when you already have a master instrument
which receives all midi, with a code similar to the one marc (?)
suggested.  and then it works for all midi keyboard, and you can define
to switch to this mode freely.

i don't think that array or table approach will make and difference
here, as you perform it only when a key is pressed.

        joachim



On 16/09/18 18:28, Dave Seidel wrote:
> Interesting thought, thanks, Worth considering. Ought to work with an
> array as well as a table (not sure which is more efficient).
> Csound mailing list [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features
> can be posted here

Csound mailing list
[hidden email]
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here