[Csnd] Csound with DC-coupled audio interfaces

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[Csnd] Csound with DC-coupled audio interfaces

Dave Seidel
Hi all,

I'm intrigued by audio interfaces like the Expert Sleepers ES-8, which allow software to send CV as well as audio into a modular synth. Software like Silent Way, Max/MSP, Pd and others apparently know how to do this. But I don't understand how they're doing it.

How would I do this with Csound, assuming I was using an ES-8 as my audio interface? That is, what kind of signal would I need to emit from Csound such that it would be interpreted as control voltage (DC)? It is possible?

(I know it's possible to use a MIDI-to-CV device to do this -- I do this to send gate signals to my modular system --  but then one is stuck with MIDI resolution, which isn't ideal for applications such as LFOs.)

- Dave
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Re: [Csnd] Csound with DC-coupled audio interfaces

Michael Gogins-2
Try just sending the control voltage out your DAC.

out 1

Should send a DC level of 1 normalized to the maximum signal amplitude of your DAC. That should equate to about .445 volts for the -10 dBV line level of semiprofessional audio gear. You would need an amplifier to get that up to the 1 V/octave range of modular synthesizer gear. Be careful not to go too high, control voltages don't exceed 9 or 10.

Best, 
Mike

On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 22:01 Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

I'm intrigued by audio interfaces like the Expert Sleepers ES-8, which allow software to send CV as well as audio into a modular synth. Software like Silent Way, Max/MSP, Pd and others apparently know how to do this. But I don't understand how they're doing it.

How would I do this with Csound, assuming I was using an ES-8 as my audio interface? That is, what kind of signal would I need to emit from Csound such that it would be interpreted as control voltage (DC)? It is possible?

(I know it's possible to use a MIDI-to-CV device to do this -- I do this to send gate signals to my modular system --  but then one is stuck with MIDI resolution, which isn't ideal for applications such as LFOs.)

- Dave
Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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Re: [Csnd] Csound with DC-coupled audio interfaces

Dave Seidel
Thanks, Mike. I don't have a suitable interface yet to try this with, but this does make me think it should be possible. I'm not necessarily seeking to send pitch voltages (this would be very cool, but probably an additional challenge to get the output calibrated properly for really accurate pitch tracking), but I'd certainly want to be able to produce a +/-5V signal (10V peak to peak). I'm not sure I understand how to amplify the signal, unless the audio interface handles that -- software like Silent Way (which is a VST) and Reaktor require only a DC-coupled interface like the ES-8 I'm contemplating and no other special hardware.

- Dave

On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 11:31 PM Michael Gogins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Try just sending the control voltage out your DAC.

out 1

Should send a DC level of 1 normalized to the maximum signal amplitude of your DAC. That should equate to about .445 volts for the -10 dBV line level of semiprofessional audio gear. You would need an amplifier to get that up to the 1 V/octave range of modular synthesizer gear. Be careful not to go too high, control voltages don't exceed 9 or 10.

Best, 
Mike

On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 22:01 Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

I'm intrigued by audio interfaces like the Expert Sleepers ES-8, which allow software to send CV as well as audio into a modular synth. Software like Silent Way, Max/MSP, Pd and others apparently know how to do this. But I don't understand how they're doing it.

How would I do this with Csound, assuming I was using an ES-8 as my audio interface? That is, what kind of signal would I need to emit from Csound such that it would be interpreted as control voltage (DC)? It is possible?

(I know it's possible to use a MIDI-to-CV device to do this -- I do this to send gate signals to my modular system --  but then one is stuck with MIDI resolution, which isn't ideal for applications such as LFOs.)

- Dave
Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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Re: [Csnd] Csound with DC-coupled audio interfaces

Justin Smith
It looks like the ES-8 is specifically a eurorack device, so it should
"just work" for your purpose as advertised

Pardon if I'm stating the obvious, but normal devices with digital
input and analog output are going to have an amplifier of some sort on
the output. The settings on the device and/or the software mixer
controls will decide what that amplification factor is for both
voltage and amperage (and often the choice of output port will as
well, eg. dedicated line out vs. headphone out vs. balanced output).
If you don't have an oscilloscope you can borrow / use, a cheap
digital volt meter can show you DC voltages. Usually gains / levels
are shown in db factor of some reference level, but that does
translate to specific voltages.

The hottest standard line level for pro audio gear is only +/-1.2
volts, so without designated synth equipment I'd expect that you'd
need to do a gain stage on the modular side. I'd definitely double
check which "cv" standard the interface works with, because there are
multiple definitions. I'd expect a c/v amplifier that takes consumer
or pro level line signal (maybe with a handly switch), and then
amplifies it to +/-5v or 0-8v range would be a cheap / simple thing to
make (simple enough that you might prefer to make it an optional
plug-in on some other module).

On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 3:45 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Thanks, Mike. I don't have a suitable interface yet to try this with, but this does make me think it should be possible. I'm not necessarily seeking to send pitch voltages (this would be very cool, but probably an additional challenge to get the output calibrated properly for really accurate pitch tracking), but I'd certainly want to be able to produce a +/-5V signal (10V peak to peak). I'm not sure I understand how to amplify the signal, unless the audio interface handles that -- software like Silent Way (which is a VST) and Reaktor require only a DC-coupled interface like the ES-8 I'm contemplating and no other special hardware.
>
> - Dave
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 11:31 PM Michael Gogins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Try just sending the control voltage out your DAC.
>>
>> out 1
>>
>> Should send a DC level of 1 normalized to the maximum signal amplitude of your DAC. That should equate to about .445 volts for the -10 dBV line level of semiprofessional audio gear. You would need an amplifier to get that up to the 1 V/octave range of modular synthesizer gear. Be careful not to go too high, control voltages don't exceed 9 or 10.
>>
>> Best,
>> Mike
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 22:01 Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm intrigued by audio interfaces like the Expert Sleepers ES-8, which allow software to send CV as well as audio into a modular synth. Software like Silent Way, Max/MSP, Pd and others apparently know how to do this. But I don't understand how they're doing it.
>>>
>>> How would I do this with Csound, assuming I was using an ES-8 as my audio interface? That is, what kind of signal would I need to emit from Csound such that it would be interpreted as control voltage (DC)? It is possible?
>>>
>>> (I know it's possible to use a MIDI-to-CV device to do this -- I do this to send gate signals to my modular system --  but then one is stuck with MIDI resolution, which isn't ideal for applications such as LFOs.)
>>>
>>> - Dave
>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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Re: [Csnd] Csound with DC-coupled audio interfaces

Dave Seidel
Thanks, Justin. I understand what you're saying, but the fact is that there is plenty of software that works out of the box with the ES-8 (and other DC-coupled interfaces) with any additional hardware, so perhaps the interfaces themselves handle the differences in voltage. What I am trying to understand is specifically how to tell Csound to emit a suitable DC signal.  If it's as simple as Mike suggests using "out N", then great. I guess I'd have to measure the output of the ES-8 (since I have one) given different output levels from Csound, so that I'd understand how the scaling works. I have both a standalone scope and a Eurorack scope, so it should be easy enough to figure out.

On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 3:25 PM Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
It looks like the ES-8 is specifically a eurorack device, so it should
"just work" for your purpose as advertised

Pardon if I'm stating the obvious, but normal devices with digital
input and analog output are going to have an amplifier of some sort on
the output. The settings on the device and/or the software mixer
controls will decide what that amplification factor is for both
voltage and amperage (and often the choice of output port will as
well, eg. dedicated line out vs. headphone out vs. balanced output).
If you don't have an oscilloscope you can borrow / use, a cheap
digital volt meter can show you DC voltages. Usually gains / levels
are shown in db factor of some reference level, but that does
translate to specific voltages.

The hottest standard line level for pro audio gear is only +/-1.2
volts, so without designated synth equipment I'd expect that you'd
need to do a gain stage on the modular side. I'd definitely double
check which "cv" standard the interface works with, because there are
multiple definitions. I'd expect a c/v amplifier that takes consumer
or pro level line signal (maybe with a handly switch), and then
amplifies it to +/-5v or 0-8v range would be a cheap / simple thing to
make (simple enough that you might prefer to make it an optional
plug-in on some other module).

On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 3:45 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Mike. I don't have a suitable interface yet to try this with, but this does make me think it should be possible. I'm not necessarily seeking to send pitch voltages (this would be very cool, but probably an additional challenge to get the output calibrated properly for really accurate pitch tracking), but I'd certainly want to be able to produce a +/-5V signal (10V peak to peak). I'm not sure I understand how to amplify the signal, unless the audio interface handles that -- software like Silent Way (which is a VST) and Reaktor require only a DC-coupled interface like the ES-8 I'm contemplating and no other special hardware.
>
> - Dave
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 11:31 PM Michael Gogins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Try just sending the control voltage out your DAC.
>>
>> out 1
>>
>> Should send a DC level of 1 normalized to the maximum signal amplitude of your DAC. That should equate to about .445 volts for the -10 dBV line level of semiprofessional audio gear. You would need an amplifier to get that up to the 1 V/octave range of modular synthesizer gear. Be careful not to go too high, control voltages don't exceed 9 or 10.
>>
>> Best,
>> Mike
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 22:01 Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm intrigued by audio interfaces like the Expert Sleepers ES-8, which allow software to send CV as well as audio into a modular synth. Software like Silent Way, Max/MSP, Pd and others apparently know how to do this. But I don't understand how they're doing it.
>>>
>>> How would I do this with Csound, assuming I was using an ES-8 as my audio interface? That is, what kind of signal would I need to emit from Csound such that it would be interpreted as control voltage (DC)? It is possible?
>>>
>>> (I know it's possible to use a MIDI-to-CV device to do this -- I do this to send gate signals to my modular system --  but then one is stuck with MIDI resolution, which isn't ideal for applications such as LFOs.)
>>>
>>> - Dave
>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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Send bugs reports to
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Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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Re: [Csnd] Csound with DC-coupled audio interfaces

Justin Smith
Regarding "out N", that's all I'd expect to be necessary from csound,
and I'm sure you could verify by writing to a file or using jack to
route directly to a DAW to examine the signal. In terms of scaling,
I'd be surprised by anything other than full-scale being translated
linearly to the cv range.

On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 1:15 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Thanks, Justin. I understand what you're saying, but the fact is that there is plenty of software that works out of the box with the ES-8 (and other DC-coupled interfaces) with any additional hardware, so perhaps the interfaces themselves handle the differences in voltage. What I am trying to understand is specifically how to tell Csound to emit a suitable DC signal.  If it's as simple as Mike suggests using "out N", then great. I guess I'd have to measure the output of the ES-8 (since I have one) given different output levels from Csound, so that I'd understand how the scaling works. I have both a standalone scope and a Eurorack scope, so it should be easy enough to figure out.
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 3:25 PM Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> It looks like the ES-8 is specifically a eurorack device, so it should
>> "just work" for your purpose as advertised
>>
>> Pardon if I'm stating the obvious, but normal devices with digital
>> input and analog output are going to have an amplifier of some sort on
>> the output. The settings on the device and/or the software mixer
>> controls will decide what that amplification factor is for both
>> voltage and amperage (and often the choice of output port will as
>> well, eg. dedicated line out vs. headphone out vs. balanced output).
>> If you don't have an oscilloscope you can borrow / use, a cheap
>> digital volt meter can show you DC voltages. Usually gains / levels
>> are shown in db factor of some reference level, but that does
>> translate to specific voltages.
>>
>> The hottest standard line level for pro audio gear is only +/-1.2
>> volts, so without designated synth equipment I'd expect that you'd
>> need to do a gain stage on the modular side. I'd definitely double
>> check which "cv" standard the interface works with, because there are
>> multiple definitions. I'd expect a c/v amplifier that takes consumer
>> or pro level line signal (maybe with a handly switch), and then
>> amplifies it to +/-5v or 0-8v range would be a cheap / simple thing to
>> make (simple enough that you might prefer to make it an optional
>> plug-in on some other module).
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 3:45 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > Thanks, Mike. I don't have a suitable interface yet to try this with, but this does make me think it should be possible. I'm not necessarily seeking to send pitch voltages (this would be very cool, but probably an additional challenge to get the output calibrated properly for really accurate pitch tracking), but I'd certainly want to be able to produce a +/-5V signal (10V peak to peak). I'm not sure I understand how to amplify the signal, unless the audio interface handles that -- software like Silent Way (which is a VST) and Reaktor require only a DC-coupled interface like the ES-8 I'm contemplating and no other special hardware.
>> >
>> > - Dave
>> >
>> > On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 11:31 PM Michael Gogins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Try just sending the control voltage out your DAC.
>> >>
>> >> out 1
>> >>
>> >> Should send a DC level of 1 normalized to the maximum signal amplitude of your DAC. That should equate to about .445 volts for the -10 dBV line level of semiprofessional audio gear. You would need an amplifier to get that up to the 1 V/octave range of modular synthesizer gear. Be careful not to go too high, control voltages don't exceed 9 or 10.
>> >>
>> >> Best,
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 22:01 Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi all,
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm intrigued by audio interfaces like the Expert Sleepers ES-8, which allow software to send CV as well as audio into a modular synth. Software like Silent Way, Max/MSP, Pd and others apparently know how to do this. But I don't understand how they're doing it.
>> >>>
>> >>> How would I do this with Csound, assuming I was using an ES-8 as my audio interface? That is, what kind of signal would I need to emit from Csound such that it would be interpreted as control voltage (DC)? It is possible?
>> >>>
>> >>> (I know it's possible to use a MIDI-to-CV device to do this -- I do this to send gate signals to my modular system --  but then one is stuck with MIDI resolution, which isn't ideal for applications such as LFOs.)
>> >>>
>> >>> - Dave
>> >>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >>
>> >> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >
>> > Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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Re: [Csnd] Csound with DC-coupled audio interfaces

alexandre burton
the ES-8 is designed to match 0dBfs to +10VDC, so yes “out .5” will provide +5V, and "out .707” will give out +7.07V. negative voltages are possible, so for conventional CV behavior the main concern would be to shift your LFOs to positive: “out 0.5+oscil(0.5, 2,1)”.

and take note that standard interfaces may output suprinsingly hot signals. MOTU has a CV product called Volta and documents the DC output of their interfaces here: https://motu.com/techsupport/technotes/testing-analog-outputs-for-control-voltage-compatibility (make sure to click the gray zones at the botttom to reveal the data). some interfaces go up to 9V. that page also explain a multimeter method to match the output to CV values that could be replicated in Csound.

alex.

> On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:20 PM, Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Regarding "out N", that's all I'd expect to be necessary from csound,
> and I'm sure you could verify by writing to a file or using jack to
> route directly to a DAW to examine the signal. In terms of scaling,
> I'd be surprised by anything other than full-scale being translated
> linearly to the cv range.
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 1:15 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, Justin. I understand what you're saying, but the fact is that there is plenty of software that works out of the box with the ES-8 (and other DC-coupled interfaces) with any additional hardware, so perhaps the interfaces themselves handle the differences in voltage. What I am trying to understand is specifically how to tell Csound to emit a suitable DC signal.  If it's as simple as Mike suggests using "out N", then great. I guess I'd have to measure the output of the ES-8 (since I have one) given different output levels from Csound, so that I'd understand how the scaling works. I have both a standalone scope and a Eurorack scope, so it should be easy enough to figure out.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 3:25 PM Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> It looks like the ES-8 is specifically a eurorack device, so it should
>>> "just work" for your purpose as advertised
>>>
>>> Pardon if I'm stating the obvious, but normal devices with digital
>>> input and analog output are going to have an amplifier of some sort on
>>> the output. The settings on the device and/or the software mixer
>>> controls will decide what that amplification factor is for both
>>> voltage and amperage (and often the choice of output port will as
>>> well, eg. dedicated line out vs. headphone out vs. balanced output).
>>> If you don't have an oscilloscope you can borrow / use, a cheap
>>> digital volt meter can show you DC voltages. Usually gains / levels
>>> are shown in db factor of some reference level, but that does
>>> translate to specific voltages.
>>>
>>> The hottest standard line level for pro audio gear is only +/-1.2
>>> volts, so without designated synth equipment I'd expect that you'd
>>> need to do a gain stage on the modular side. I'd definitely double
>>> check which "cv" standard the interface works with, because there are
>>> multiple definitions. I'd expect a c/v amplifier that takes consumer
>>> or pro level line signal (maybe with a handly switch), and then
>>> amplifies it to +/-5v or 0-8v range would be a cheap / simple thing to
>>> make (simple enough that you might prefer to make it an optional
>>> plug-in on some other module).
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 3:45 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, Mike. I don't have a suitable interface yet to try this with, but this does make me think it should be possible. I'm not necessarily seeking to send pitch voltages (this would be very cool, but probably an additional challenge to get the output calibrated properly for really accurate pitch tracking), but I'd certainly want to be able to produce a +/-5V signal (10V peak to peak). I'm not sure I understand how to amplify the signal, unless the audio interface handles that -- software like Silent Way (which is a VST) and Reaktor require only a DC-coupled interface like the ES-8 I'm contemplating and no other special hardware.
>>>>
>>>> - Dave
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 11:31 PM Michael Gogins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Try just sending the control voltage out your DAC.
>>>>>
>>>>> out 1
>>>>>
>>>>> Should send a DC level of 1 normalized to the maximum signal amplitude of your DAC. That should equate to about .445 volts for the -10 dBV line level of semiprofessional audio gear. You would need an amplifier to get that up to the 1 V/octave range of modular synthesizer gear. Be careful not to go too high, control voltages don't exceed 9 or 10.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 22:01 Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm intrigued by audio interfaces like the Expert Sleepers ES-8, which allow software to send CV as well as audio into a modular synth. Software like Silent Way, Max/MSP, Pd and others apparently know how to do this. But I don't understand how they're doing it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How would I do this with Csound, assuming I was using an ES-8 as my audio interface? That is, what kind of signal would I need to emit from Csound such that it would be interpreted as control voltage (DC)? It is possible?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (I know it's possible to use a MIDI-to-CV device to do this -- I do this to send gate signals to my modular system --  but then one is stuck with MIDI resolution, which isn't ideal for applications such as LFOs.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Dave
>>>>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>
>>>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>
>>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
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> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] Csound with DC-coupled audio interfaces

Victor Lazzarini-2
Looks like the ES-8 is the way to go. If it can match 0dbfs -> 10 V, and drop change in signal amplitude as a linear voltage, then it’s
game on. All you need is a little RPi running Csound beside it and you have a custom eurorackable Csound system.
========================
Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Maynooth University
Ireland

> On 24 Nov 2020, at 03:28, alexandre burton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> *Warning*
>
> This email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
>
> the ES-8 is designed to match 0dBfs to +10VDC, so yes “out .5” will provide +5V, and "out .707” will give out +7.07V. negative voltages are possible, so for conventional CV behavior the main concern would be to shift your LFOs to positive: “out 0.5+oscil(0.5, 2,1)”.
>
> and take note that standard interfaces may output suprinsingly hot signals. MOTU has a CV product called Volta and documents the DC output of their interfaces here: https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmotu.com%2Ftechsupport%2Ftechnotes%2Ftesting-analog-outputs-for-control-voltage-compatibility&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=U2SLQkZt8JpeoKYmz%2FW6%2FRZBcVzwVZrvymQJvgYqytI%3D&amp;reserved=0 (make sure to click the gray zones at the botttom to reveal the data). some interfaces go up to 9V. that page also explain a multimeter method to match the output to CV values that could be replicated in Csound.
>
> alex.
>
>> On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:20 PM, Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Regarding "out N", that's all I'd expect to be necessary from csound,
>> and I'm sure you could verify by writing to a file or using jack to
>> route directly to a DAW to examine the signal. In terms of scaling,
>> I'd be surprised by anything other than full-scale being translated
>> linearly to the cv range.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 1:15 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks, Justin. I understand what you're saying, but the fact is that there is plenty of software that works out of the box with the ES-8 (and other DC-coupled interfaces) with any additional hardware, so perhaps the interfaces themselves handle the differences in voltage. What I am trying to understand is specifically how to tell Csound to emit a suitable DC signal.  If it's as simple as Mike suggests using "out N", then great. I guess I'd have to measure the output of the ES-8 (since I have one) given different output levels from Csound, so that I'd understand how the scaling works. I have both a standalone scope and a Eurorack scope, so it should be easy enough to figure out.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 3:25 PM Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It looks like the ES-8 is specifically a eurorack device, so it should
>>>> "just work" for your purpose as advertised
>>>>
>>>> Pardon if I'm stating the obvious, but normal devices with digital
>>>> input and analog output are going to have an amplifier of some sort on
>>>> the output. The settings on the device and/or the software mixer
>>>> controls will decide what that amplification factor is for both
>>>> voltage and amperage (and often the choice of output port will as
>>>> well, eg. dedicated line out vs. headphone out vs. balanced output).
>>>> If you don't have an oscilloscope you can borrow / use, a cheap
>>>> digital volt meter can show you DC voltages. Usually gains / levels
>>>> are shown in db factor of some reference level, but that does
>>>> translate to specific voltages.
>>>>
>>>> The hottest standard line level for pro audio gear is only +/-1.2
>>>> volts, so without designated synth equipment I'd expect that you'd
>>>> need to do a gain stage on the modular side. I'd definitely double
>>>> check which "cv" standard the interface works with, because there are
>>>> multiple definitions. I'd expect a c/v amplifier that takes consumer
>>>> or pro level line signal (maybe with a handly switch), and then
>>>> amplifies it to +/-5v or 0-8v range would be a cheap / simple thing to
>>>> make (simple enough that you might prefer to make it an optional
>>>> plug-in on some other module).
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 3:45 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, Mike. I don't have a suitable interface yet to try this with, but this does make me think it should be possible. I'm not necessarily seeking to send pitch voltages (this would be very cool, but probably an additional challenge to get the output calibrated properly for really accurate pitch tracking), but I'd certainly want to be able to produce a +/-5V signal (10V peak to peak). I'm not sure I understand how to amplify the signal, unless the audio interface handles that -- software like Silent Way (which is a VST) and Reaktor require only a DC-coupled interface like the ES-8 I'm contemplating and no other special hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 11:31 PM Michael Gogins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Try just sending the control voltage out your DAC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> out 1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Should send a DC level of 1 normalized to the maximum signal amplitude of your DAC. That should equate to about .445 volts for the -10 dBV line level of semiprofessional audio gear. You would need an amplifier to get that up to the 1 V/octave range of modular synthesizer gear. Be careful not to go too high, control voltages don't exceed 9 or 10.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 22:01 Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm intrigued by audio interfaces like the Expert Sleepers ES-8, which allow software to send CV as well as audio into a modular synth. Software like Silent Way, Max/MSP, Pd and others apparently know how to do this. But I don't understand how they're doing it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How would I do this with Csound, assuming I was using an ES-8 as my audio interface? That is, what kind of signal would I need to emit from Csound such that it would be interpreted as control voltage (DC)? It is possible?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (I know it's possible to use a MIDI-to-CV device to do this -- I do this to send gate signals to my modular system --  but then one is stuck with MIDI resolution, which isn't ideal for applications such as LFOs.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Dave
>>>>>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=ai6HUfO13dsL8qi62FVJTwlsQKI7ArJyhspPx0bN1GI%3D&amp;reserved=0 Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=1ElQaOu%2BC6ElSywIOSan9HcLDQkIYzHWJfrq98lFPQo%3D&amp;reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> Csound mailing list
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>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>       https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=Q3q%2FNJm5e61oIUtvRFQNhpZSIhRXiyL8NsLpUPg%2BHJo%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=HrFwcPZAeF1qYyi5s37T9xalDFhVRAFIvVz3ib%2FmCmM%3D&amp;reserved=0 Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=Q3q%2FNJm5e61oIUtvRFQNhpZSIhRXiyL8NsLpUPg%2BHJo%3D&amp;reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
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>> Send bugs reports to
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>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
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> Send bugs reports to
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Re: [Csnd] Csound with DC-coupled audio interfaces

Dave Seidel
In reply to this post by alexandre burton
Thanks, Alex, this is precisely what I need to know!

- Dave

On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 10:28 PM alexandre burton <[hidden email]> wrote:
the ES-8 is designed to match 0dBfs to +10VDC, so yes “out .5” will provide +5V, and "out .707” will give out +7.07V. negative voltages are possible, so for conventional CV behavior the main concern would be to shift your LFOs to positive: “out 0.5+oscil(0.5, 2,1)”.

and take note that standard interfaces may output suprinsingly hot signals. MOTU has a CV product called Volta and documents the DC output of their interfaces here: https://motu.com/techsupport/technotes/testing-analog-outputs-for-control-voltage-compatibility (make sure to click the gray zones at the botttom to reveal the data). some interfaces go up to 9V. that page also explain a multimeter method to match the output to CV values that could be replicated in Csound.

alex.

> On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:20 PM, Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Regarding "out N", that's all I'd expect to be necessary from csound,
> and I'm sure you could verify by writing to a file or using jack to
> route directly to a DAW to examine the signal. In terms of scaling,
> I'd be surprised by anything other than full-scale being translated
> linearly to the cv range.
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 1:15 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, Justin. I understand what you're saying, but the fact is that there is plenty of software that works out of the box with the ES-8 (and other DC-coupled interfaces) with any additional hardware, so perhaps the interfaces themselves handle the differences in voltage. What I am trying to understand is specifically how to tell Csound to emit a suitable DC signal.  If it's as simple as Mike suggests using "out N", then great. I guess I'd have to measure the output of the ES-8 (since I have one) given different output levels from Csound, so that I'd understand how the scaling works. I have both a standalone scope and a Eurorack scope, so it should be easy enough to figure out.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 3:25 PM Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> It looks like the ES-8 is specifically a eurorack device, so it should
>>> "just work" for your purpose as advertised
>>>
>>> Pardon if I'm stating the obvious, but normal devices with digital
>>> input and analog output are going to have an amplifier of some sort on
>>> the output. The settings on the device and/or the software mixer
>>> controls will decide what that amplification factor is for both
>>> voltage and amperage (and often the choice of output port will as
>>> well, eg. dedicated line out vs. headphone out vs. balanced output).
>>> If you don't have an oscilloscope you can borrow / use, a cheap
>>> digital volt meter can show you DC voltages. Usually gains / levels
>>> are shown in db factor of some reference level, but that does
>>> translate to specific voltages.
>>>
>>> The hottest standard line level for pro audio gear is only +/-1.2
>>> volts, so without designated synth equipment I'd expect that you'd
>>> need to do a gain stage on the modular side. I'd definitely double
>>> check which "cv" standard the interface works with, because there are
>>> multiple definitions. I'd expect a c/v amplifier that takes consumer
>>> or pro level line signal (maybe with a handly switch), and then
>>> amplifies it to +/-5v or 0-8v range would be a cheap / simple thing to
>>> make (simple enough that you might prefer to make it an optional
>>> plug-in on some other module).
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 3:45 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, Mike. I don't have a suitable interface yet to try this with, but this does make me think it should be possible. I'm not necessarily seeking to send pitch voltages (this would be very cool, but probably an additional challenge to get the output calibrated properly for really accurate pitch tracking), but I'd certainly want to be able to produce a +/-5V signal (10V peak to peak). I'm not sure I understand how to amplify the signal, unless the audio interface handles that -- software like Silent Way (which is a VST) and Reaktor require only a DC-coupled interface like the ES-8 I'm contemplating and no other special hardware.
>>>>
>>>> - Dave
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 11:31 PM Michael Gogins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Try just sending the control voltage out your DAC.
>>>>>
>>>>> out 1
>>>>>
>>>>> Should send a DC level of 1 normalized to the maximum signal amplitude of your DAC. That should equate to about .445 volts for the -10 dBV line level of semiprofessional audio gear. You would need an amplifier to get that up to the 1 V/octave range of modular synthesizer gear. Be careful not to go too high, control voltages don't exceed 9 or 10.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 22:01 Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm intrigued by audio interfaces like the Expert Sleepers ES-8, which allow software to send CV as well as audio into a modular synth. Software like Silent Way, Max/MSP, Pd and others apparently know how to do this. But I don't understand how they're doing it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How would I do this with Csound, assuming I was using an ES-8 as my audio interface? That is, what kind of signal would I need to emit from Csound such that it would be interpreted as control voltage (DC)? It is possible?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (I know it's possible to use a MIDI-to-CV device to do this -- I do this to send gate signals to my modular system --  but then one is stuck with MIDI resolution, which isn't ideal for applications such as LFOs.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Dave
>>>>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>
>>>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>
>>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
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Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] Csound with DC-coupled audio interfaces

Dave Seidel
In reply to this post by Victor Lazzarini-2
Victor, excellent. I bought one last night, can't wait to get it and try it out.

As you may know, I'm already running Csound on a headless RPi 4, a combination I'm very happy with, so this should be great. I'm currently using the Pi with a USB audio interface and a small MIDI-to-CV box (so I can send gates), both going to Eurorack, and it will be very cool to be able to use the ES-8 for both functions. When I can travel and perform again (I hope before 2022), this will be very good for portability.

- Dave 

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 3:59 AM Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
Looks like the ES-8 is the way to go. If it can match 0dbfs -> 10 V, and drop change in signal amplitude as a linear voltage, then it’s
game on. All you need is a little RPi running Csound beside it and you have a custom eurorackable Csound system.
========================
Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Maynooth University
Ireland

> On 24 Nov 2020, at 03:28, alexandre burton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> *Warning*
>
> This email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
>
> the ES-8 is designed to match 0dBfs to +10VDC, so yes “out .5” will provide +5V, and "out .707” will give out +7.07V. negative voltages are possible, so for conventional CV behavior the main concern would be to shift your LFOs to positive: “out 0.5+oscil(0.5, 2,1)”.
>
> and take note that standard interfaces may output suprinsingly hot signals. MOTU has a CV product called Volta and documents the DC output of their interfaces here: https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmotu.com%2Ftechsupport%2Ftechnotes%2Ftesting-analog-outputs-for-control-voltage-compatibility&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=U2SLQkZt8JpeoKYmz%2FW6%2FRZBcVzwVZrvymQJvgYqytI%3D&amp;reserved=0 (make sure to click the gray zones at the botttom to reveal the data). some interfaces go up to 9V. that page also explain a multimeter method to match the output to CV values that could be replicated in Csound.
>
> alex.
>
>> On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:20 PM, Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Regarding "out N", that's all I'd expect to be necessary from csound,
>> and I'm sure you could verify by writing to a file or using jack to
>> route directly to a DAW to examine the signal. In terms of scaling,
>> I'd be surprised by anything other than full-scale being translated
>> linearly to the cv range.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 1:15 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks, Justin. I understand what you're saying, but the fact is that there is plenty of software that works out of the box with the ES-8 (and other DC-coupled interfaces) with any additional hardware, so perhaps the interfaces themselves handle the differences in voltage. What I am trying to understand is specifically how to tell Csound to emit a suitable DC signal.  If it's as simple as Mike suggests using "out N", then great. I guess I'd have to measure the output of the ES-8 (since I have one) given different output levels from Csound, so that I'd understand how the scaling works. I have both a standalone scope and a Eurorack scope, so it should be easy enough to figure out.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 3:25 PM Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It looks like the ES-8 is specifically a eurorack device, so it should
>>>> "just work" for your purpose as advertised
>>>>
>>>> Pardon if I'm stating the obvious, but normal devices with digital
>>>> input and analog output are going to have an amplifier of some sort on
>>>> the output. The settings on the device and/or the software mixer
>>>> controls will decide what that amplification factor is for both
>>>> voltage and amperage (and often the choice of output port will as
>>>> well, eg. dedicated line out vs. headphone out vs. balanced output).
>>>> If you don't have an oscilloscope you can borrow / use, a cheap
>>>> digital volt meter can show you DC voltages. Usually gains / levels
>>>> are shown in db factor of some reference level, but that does
>>>> translate to specific voltages.
>>>>
>>>> The hottest standard line level for pro audio gear is only +/-1.2
>>>> volts, so without designated synth equipment I'd expect that you'd
>>>> need to do a gain stage on the modular side. I'd definitely double
>>>> check which "cv" standard the interface works with, because there are
>>>> multiple definitions. I'd expect a c/v amplifier that takes consumer
>>>> or pro level line signal (maybe with a handly switch), and then
>>>> amplifies it to +/-5v or 0-8v range would be a cheap / simple thing to
>>>> make (simple enough that you might prefer to make it an optional
>>>> plug-in on some other module).
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 3:45 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, Mike. I don't have a suitable interface yet to try this with, but this does make me think it should be possible. I'm not necessarily seeking to send pitch voltages (this would be very cool, but probably an additional challenge to get the output calibrated properly for really accurate pitch tracking), but I'd certainly want to be able to produce a +/-5V signal (10V peak to peak). I'm not sure I understand how to amplify the signal, unless the audio interface handles that -- software like Silent Way (which is a VST) and Reaktor require only a DC-coupled interface like the ES-8 I'm contemplating and no other special hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 11:31 PM Michael Gogins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Try just sending the control voltage out your DAC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> out 1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Should send a DC level of 1 normalized to the maximum signal amplitude of your DAC. That should equate to about .445 volts for the -10 dBV line level of semiprofessional audio gear. You would need an amplifier to get that up to the 1 V/octave range of modular synthesizer gear. Be careful not to go too high, control voltages don't exceed 9 or 10.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 22:01 Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm intrigued by audio interfaces like the Expert Sleepers ES-8, which allow software to send CV as well as audio into a modular synth. Software like Silent Way, Max/MSP, Pd and others apparently know how to do this. But I don't understand how they're doing it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How would I do this with Csound, assuming I was using an ES-8 as my audio interface? That is, what kind of signal would I need to emit from Csound such that it would be interpreted as control voltage (DC)? It is possible?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (I know it's possible to use a MIDI-to-CV device to do this -- I do this to send gate signals to my modular system --  but then one is stuck with MIDI resolution, which isn't ideal for applications such as LFOs.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Dave
>>>>>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=ai6HUfO13dsL8qi62FVJTwlsQKI7ArJyhspPx0bN1GI%3D&amp;reserved=0 Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=1ElQaOu%2BC6ElSywIOSan9HcLDQkIYzHWJfrq98lFPQo%3D&amp;reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=ai6HUfO13dsL8qi62FVJTwlsQKI7ArJyhspPx0bN1GI%3D&amp;reserved=0 Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=1ElQaOu%2BC6ElSywIOSan9HcLDQkIYzHWJfrq98lFPQo%3D&amp;reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>
>>>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=ai6HUfO13dsL8qi62FVJTwlsQKI7ArJyhspPx0bN1GI%3D&amp;reserved=0 Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=1ElQaOu%2BC6ElSywIOSan9HcLDQkIYzHWJfrq98lFPQo%3D&amp;reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>
>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=HrFwcPZAeF1qYyi5s37T9xalDFhVRAFIvVz3ib%2FmCmM%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>       https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=Q3q%2FNJm5e61oIUtvRFQNhpZSIhRXiyL8NsLpUPg%2BHJo%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=HrFwcPZAeF1qYyi5s37T9xalDFhVRAFIvVz3ib%2FmCmM%3D&amp;reserved=0 Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=Q3q%2FNJm5e61oIUtvRFQNhpZSIhRXiyL8NsLpUPg%2BHJo%3D&amp;reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=HrFwcPZAeF1qYyi5s37T9xalDFhVRAFIvVz3ib%2FmCmM%3D&amp;reserved=0
>> Send bugs reports to
>>       https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=Q3q%2FNJm5e61oIUtvRFQNhpZSIhRXiyL8NsLpUPg%2BHJo%3D&amp;reserved=0
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
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> Send bugs reports to
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Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] Csound with DC-coupled audio interfaces

Victor Lazzarini-2
Great.
Please give us a report when it arrives. I was thinking the Pi could be mounted behind an eurorack panel into the rack beside the ES-8.
I was thinking that this combination may give all the needed connectivity, without needing to use an extra arduino etc for digital controls. Just audio-rate CV for everything.

Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Maynooth University
Ireland

On Nov 24, 2020, at 10:34 AM, Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:


Victor, excellent. I bought one last night, can't wait to get it and try it out.

As you may know, I'm already running Csound on a headless RPi 4, a combination I'm very happy with, so this should be great. I'm currently using the Pi with a USB audio interface and a small MIDI-to-CV box (so I can send gates), both going to Eurorack, and it will be very cool to be able to use the ES-8 for both functions. When I can travel and perform again (I hope before 2022), this will be very good for portability.

- Dave 

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 3:59 AM Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
Looks like the ES-8 is the way to go. If it can match 0dbfs -> 10 V, and drop change in signal amplitude as a linear voltage, then it’s
game on. All you need is a little RPi running Csound beside it and you have a custom eurorackable Csound system.
========================
Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Maynooth University
Ireland

> On 24 Nov 2020, at 03:28, alexandre burton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> *Warning*
>
> This email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
>
> the ES-8 is designed to match 0dBfs to +10VDC, so yes “out .5” will provide +5V, and "out .707” will give out +7.07V. negative voltages are possible, so for conventional CV behavior the main concern would be to shift your LFOs to positive: “out 0.5+oscil(0.5, 2,1)”.
>
> and take note that standard interfaces may output suprinsingly hot signals. MOTU has a CV product called Volta and documents the DC output of their interfaces here: https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmotu.com%2Ftechsupport%2Ftechnotes%2Ftesting-analog-outputs-for-control-voltage-compatibility&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=U2SLQkZt8JpeoKYmz%2FW6%2FRZBcVzwVZrvymQJvgYqytI%3D&amp;reserved=0 (make sure to click the gray zones at the botttom to reveal the data). some interfaces go up to 9V. that page also explain a multimeter method to match the output to CV values that could be replicated in Csound.
>
> alex.
>
>> On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:20 PM, Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Regarding "out N", that's all I'd expect to be necessary from csound,
>> and I'm sure you could verify by writing to a file or using jack to
>> route directly to a DAW to examine the signal. In terms of scaling,
>> I'd be surprised by anything other than full-scale being translated
>> linearly to the cv range.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 1:15 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks, Justin. I understand what you're saying, but the fact is that there is plenty of software that works out of the box with the ES-8 (and other DC-coupled interfaces) with any additional hardware, so perhaps the interfaces themselves handle the differences in voltage. What I am trying to understand is specifically how to tell Csound to emit a suitable DC signal.  If it's as simple as Mike suggests using "out N", then great. I guess I'd have to measure the output of the ES-8 (since I have one) given different output levels from Csound, so that I'd understand how the scaling works. I have both a standalone scope and a Eurorack scope, so it should be easy enough to figure out.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 3:25 PM Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It looks like the ES-8 is specifically a eurorack device, so it should
>>>> "just work" for your purpose as advertised
>>>>
>>>> Pardon if I'm stating the obvious, but normal devices with digital
>>>> input and analog output are going to have an amplifier of some sort on
>>>> the output. The settings on the device and/or the software mixer
>>>> controls will decide what that amplification factor is for both
>>>> voltage and amperage (and often the choice of output port will as
>>>> well, eg. dedicated line out vs. headphone out vs. balanced output).
>>>> If you don't have an oscilloscope you can borrow / use, a cheap
>>>> digital volt meter can show you DC voltages. Usually gains / levels
>>>> are shown in db factor of some reference level, but that does
>>>> translate to specific voltages.
>>>>
>>>> The hottest standard line level for pro audio gear is only +/-1.2
>>>> volts, so without designated synth equipment I'd expect that you'd
>>>> need to do a gain stage on the modular side. I'd definitely double
>>>> check which "cv" standard the interface works with, because there are
>>>> multiple definitions. I'd expect a c/v amplifier that takes consumer
>>>> or pro level line signal (maybe with a handly switch), and then
>>>> amplifies it to +/-5v or 0-8v range would be a cheap / simple thing to
>>>> make (simple enough that you might prefer to make it an optional
>>>> plug-in on some other module).
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 3:45 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, Mike. I don't have a suitable interface yet to try this with, but this does make me think it should be possible. I'm not necessarily seeking to send pitch voltages (this would be very cool, but probably an additional challenge to get the output calibrated properly for really accurate pitch tracking), but I'd certainly want to be able to produce a +/-5V signal (10V peak to peak). I'm not sure I understand how to amplify the signal, unless the audio interface handles that -- software like Silent Way (which is a VST) and Reaktor require only a DC-coupled interface like the ES-8 I'm contemplating and no other special hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 11:31 PM Michael Gogins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Try just sending the control voltage out your DAC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> out 1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Should send a DC level of 1 normalized to the maximum signal amplitude of your DAC. That should equate to about .445 volts for the -10 dBV line level of semiprofessional audio gear. You would need an amplifier to get that up to the 1 V/octave range of modular synthesizer gear. Be careful not to go too high, control voltages don't exceed 9 or 10.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 22:01 Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm intrigued by audio interfaces like the Expert Sleepers ES-8, which allow software to send CV as well as audio into a modular synth. Software like Silent Way, Max/MSP, Pd and others apparently know how to do this. But I don't understand how they're doing it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How would I do this with Csound, assuming I was using an ES-8 as my audio interface? That is, what kind of signal would I need to emit from Csound such that it would be interpreted as control voltage (DC)? It is possible?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (I know it's possible to use a MIDI-to-CV device to do this -- I do this to send gate signals to my modular system --  but then one is stuck with MIDI resolution, which isn't ideal for applications such as LFOs.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Dave
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Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] Csound with DC-coupled audio interfaces

Dave Seidel
That's possible, of course. The Qu-Bit Nebulae module has a Pi 3 embedded, though not usable for this purpose. However, I don't mind having the Pi in its own sturdy metal enclosure, because rack space is always at a premium. For me at least -- I have two 104 HP racks (one 7U, one 6U, each of which has a cover and can travel as carry-on luggage), and a 64 HP / 3U skiff, and I don't want to expand beyond that. For UI (when I need one), I run an Open Stage Control server on the Pi alongside Csound, using the Pi as a wifi hotspot, and use a tablet to display and operate the interface, giving me all the real time controls I need.

Speaking of the skiff, I got this to house a WMD Performance Mixer, which I got very recently and is fantastic. I like to process audio in two or more parallel channels and then mix them together before they leave the rack, so this mixer is perfect. 

- Dave

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 5:43 AM Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
Great.
Please give us a report when it arrives. I was thinking the Pi could be mounted behind an eurorack panel into the rack beside the ES-8.
I was thinking that this combination may give all the needed connectivity, without needing to use an extra arduino etc for digital controls. Just audio-rate CV for everything.

Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Maynooth University
Ireland

On Nov 24, 2020, at 10:34 AM, Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:


Victor, excellent. I bought one last night, can't wait to get it and try it out.

As you may know, I'm already running Csound on a headless RPi 4, a combination I'm very happy with, so this should be great. I'm currently using the Pi with a USB audio interface and a small MIDI-to-CV box (so I can send gates), both going to Eurorack, and it will be very cool to be able to use the ES-8 for both functions. When I can travel and perform again (I hope before 2022), this will be very good for portability.

- Dave 

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 3:59 AM Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
Looks like the ES-8 is the way to go. If it can match 0dbfs -> 10 V, and drop change in signal amplitude as a linear voltage, then it’s
game on. All you need is a little RPi running Csound beside it and you have a custom eurorackable Csound system.
========================
Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Maynooth University
Ireland

> On 24 Nov 2020, at 03:28, alexandre burton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> *Warning*
>
> This email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
>
> the ES-8 is designed to match 0dBfs to +10VDC, so yes “out .5” will provide +5V, and "out .707” will give out +7.07V. negative voltages are possible, so for conventional CV behavior the main concern would be to shift your LFOs to positive: “out 0.5+oscil(0.5, 2,1)”.
>
> and take note that standard interfaces may output suprinsingly hot signals. MOTU has a CV product called Volta and documents the DC output of their interfaces here: https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmotu.com%2Ftechsupport%2Ftechnotes%2Ftesting-analog-outputs-for-control-voltage-compatibility&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=U2SLQkZt8JpeoKYmz%2FW6%2FRZBcVzwVZrvymQJvgYqytI%3D&amp;reserved=0 (make sure to click the gray zones at the botttom to reveal the data). some interfaces go up to 9V. that page also explain a multimeter method to match the output to CV values that could be replicated in Csound.
>
> alex.
>
>> On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:20 PM, Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Regarding "out N", that's all I'd expect to be necessary from csound,
>> and I'm sure you could verify by writing to a file or using jack to
>> route directly to a DAW to examine the signal. In terms of scaling,
>> I'd be surprised by anything other than full-scale being translated
>> linearly to the cv range.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 1:15 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks, Justin. I understand what you're saying, but the fact is that there is plenty of software that works out of the box with the ES-8 (and other DC-coupled interfaces) with any additional hardware, so perhaps the interfaces themselves handle the differences in voltage. What I am trying to understand is specifically how to tell Csound to emit a suitable DC signal.  If it's as simple as Mike suggests using "out N", then great. I guess I'd have to measure the output of the ES-8 (since I have one) given different output levels from Csound, so that I'd understand how the scaling works. I have both a standalone scope and a Eurorack scope, so it should be easy enough to figure out.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 3:25 PM Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It looks like the ES-8 is specifically a eurorack device, so it should
>>>> "just work" for your purpose as advertised
>>>>
>>>> Pardon if I'm stating the obvious, but normal devices with digital
>>>> input and analog output are going to have an amplifier of some sort on
>>>> the output. The settings on the device and/or the software mixer
>>>> controls will decide what that amplification factor is for both
>>>> voltage and amperage (and often the choice of output port will as
>>>> well, eg. dedicated line out vs. headphone out vs. balanced output).
>>>> If you don't have an oscilloscope you can borrow / use, a cheap
>>>> digital volt meter can show you DC voltages. Usually gains / levels
>>>> are shown in db factor of some reference level, but that does
>>>> translate to specific voltages.
>>>>
>>>> The hottest standard line level for pro audio gear is only +/-1.2
>>>> volts, so without designated synth equipment I'd expect that you'd
>>>> need to do a gain stage on the modular side. I'd definitely double
>>>> check which "cv" standard the interface works with, because there are
>>>> multiple definitions. I'd expect a c/v amplifier that takes consumer
>>>> or pro level line signal (maybe with a handly switch), and then
>>>> amplifies it to +/-5v or 0-8v range would be a cheap / simple thing to
>>>> make (simple enough that you might prefer to make it an optional
>>>> plug-in on some other module).
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 3:45 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, Mike. I don't have a suitable interface yet to try this with, but this does make me think it should be possible. I'm not necessarily seeking to send pitch voltages (this would be very cool, but probably an additional challenge to get the output calibrated properly for really accurate pitch tracking), but I'd certainly want to be able to produce a +/-5V signal (10V peak to peak). I'm not sure I understand how to amplify the signal, unless the audio interface handles that -- software like Silent Way (which is a VST) and Reaktor require only a DC-coupled interface like the ES-8 I'm contemplating and no other special hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 11:31 PM Michael Gogins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Try just sending the control voltage out your DAC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> out 1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Should send a DC level of 1 normalized to the maximum signal amplitude of your DAC. That should equate to about .445 volts for the -10 dBV line level of semiprofessional audio gear. You would need an amplifier to get that up to the 1 V/octave range of modular synthesizer gear. Be careful not to go too high, control voltages don't exceed 9 or 10.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 22:01 Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm intrigued by audio interfaces like the Expert Sleepers ES-8, which allow software to send CV as well as audio into a modular synth. Software like Silent Way, Max/MSP, Pd and others apparently know how to do this. But I don't understand how they're doing it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How would I do this with Csound, assuming I was using an ES-8 as my audio interface? That is, what kind of signal would I need to emit from Csound such that it would be interpreted as control voltage (DC)? It is possible?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (I know it's possible to use a MIDI-to-CV device to do this -- I do this to send gate signals to my modular system --  but then one is stuck with MIDI resolution, which isn't ideal for applications such as LFOs.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Dave
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Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] Csound with DC-coupled audio interfaces

Tetsuya Miwa
Dear Dave,

This is a very interesting discussion because I’m thinking of buying ES-8/ES-9. My plan is to connect my modular synth to Csound on my PC.
As Victor mentioned, ‘just audio-rate CV for everything’ is the way to go.

Tetsuya Miwa

> 2020/11/24 20:04、Dave Seidel <[hidden email]>のメール:
>
> That's possible, of course. The Qu-Bit Nebulae module has a Pi 3 embedded, though not usable for this purpose. However, I don't mind having the Pi in its own sturdy metal enclosure, because rack space is always at a premium. For me at least -- I have two 104 HP racks (one 7U, one 6U, each of which has a cover and can travel as carry-on luggage), and a 64 HP / 3U skiff, and I don't want to expand beyond that. For UI (when I need one), I run an Open Stage Control server on the Pi alongside Csound, using the Pi as a wifi hotspot, and use a tablet to display and operate the interface, giving me all the real time controls I need.
>
> Speaking of the skiff, I got this to house a WMD Performance Mixer, which I got very recently and is fantastic. I like to process audio in two or more parallel channels and then mix them together before they leave the rack, so this mixer is perfect.
>
> - Dave
>
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 5:43 AM Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Great.
> Please give us a report when it arrives. I was thinking the Pi could be mounted behind an eurorack panel into the rack beside the ES-8.
> I was thinking that this combination may give all the needed connectivity, without needing to use an extra arduino etc for digital controls. Just audio-rate CV for everything.
>
> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> Maynooth University
> Ireland
>
>> On Nov 24, 2020, at 10:34 AM, Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Victor, excellent. I bought one last night, can't wait to get it and try it out.
>>
>> As you may know, I'm already running Csound on a headless RPi 4, a combination I'm very happy with, so this should be great. I'm currently using the Pi with a USB audio interface and a small MIDI-to-CV box (so I can send gates), both going to Eurorack, and it will be very cool to be able to use the ES-8 for both functions. When I can travel and perform again (I hope before 2022), this will be very good for portability.
>>
>> - Dave
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 3:59 AM Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Looks like the ES-8 is the way to go. If it can match 0dbfs -> 10 V, and drop change in signal amplitude as a linear voltage, then it’s
>> game on. All you need is a little RPi running Csound beside it and you have a custom eurorackable Csound system.
>> ========================
>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
>> Maynooth University
>> Ireland
>>
>> > On 24 Nov 2020, at 03:28, alexandre burton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > *Warning*
>> >
>> > This email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
>> >
>> > the ES-8 is designed to match 0dBfs to +10VDC, so yes “out .5” will provide +5V, and "out .707” will give out +7.07V. negative voltages are possible, so for conventional CV behavior the main concern would be to shift your LFOs to positive: “out 0.5+oscil(0.5, 2,1)”.
>> >
>> > and take note that standard interfaces may output suprinsingly hot signals. MOTU has a CV product called Volta and documents the DC output of their interfaces here: https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmotu.com%2Ftechsupport%2Ftechnotes%2Ftesting-analog-outputs-for-control-voltage-compatibility&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=U2SLQkZt8JpeoKYmz%2FW6%2FRZBcVzwVZrvymQJvgYqytI%3D&amp;reserved=0 (make sure to click the gray zones at the botttom to reveal the data). some interfaces go up to 9V. that page also explain a multimeter method to match the output to CV values that could be replicated in Csound.
>> >
>> > alex.
>> >
>> >> On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:20 PM, Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Regarding "out N", that's all I'd expect to be necessary from csound,
>> >> and I'm sure you could verify by writing to a file or using jack to
>> >> route directly to a DAW to examine the signal. In terms of scaling,
>> >> I'd be surprised by anything other than full-scale being translated
>> >> linearly to the cv range.
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 1:15 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks, Justin. I understand what you're saying, but the fact is that there is plenty of software that works out of the box with the ES-8 (and other DC-coupled interfaces) with any additional hardware, so perhaps the interfaces themselves handle the differences in voltage. What I am trying to understand is specifically how to tell Csound to emit a suitable DC signal.  If it's as simple as Mike suggests using "out N", then great. I guess I'd have to measure the output of the ES-8 (since I have one) given different output levels from Csound, so that I'd understand how the scaling works. I have both a standalone scope and a Eurorack scope, so it should be easy enough to figure out.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 3:25 PM Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It looks like the ES-8 is specifically a eurorack device, so it should
>> >>>> "just work" for your purpose as advertised
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Pardon if I'm stating the obvious, but normal devices with digital
>> >>>> input and analog output are going to have an amplifier of some sort on
>> >>>> the output. The settings on the device and/or the software mixer
>> >>>> controls will decide what that amplification factor is for both
>> >>>> voltage and amperage (and often the choice of output port will as
>> >>>> well, eg. dedicated line out vs. headphone out vs. balanced output).
>> >>>> If you don't have an oscilloscope you can borrow / use, a cheap
>> >>>> digital volt meter can show you DC voltages. Usually gains / levels
>> >>>> are shown in db factor of some reference level, but that does
>> >>>> translate to specific voltages.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The hottest standard line level for pro audio gear is only +/-1.2
>> >>>> volts, so without designated synth equipment I'd expect that you'd
>> >>>> need to do a gain stage on the modular side. I'd definitely double
>> >>>> check which "cv" standard the interface works with, because there are
>> >>>> multiple definitions. I'd expect a c/v amplifier that takes consumer
>> >>>> or pro level line signal (maybe with a handly switch), and then
>> >>>> amplifies it to +/-5v or 0-8v range would be a cheap / simple thing to
>> >>>> make (simple enough that you might prefer to make it an optional
>> >>>> plug-in on some other module).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 3:45 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thanks, Mike. I don't have a suitable interface yet to try this with, but this does make me think it should be possible. I'm not necessarily seeking to send pitch voltages (this would be very cool, but probably an additional challenge to get the output calibrated properly for really accurate pitch tracking), but I'd certainly want to be able to produce a +/-5V signal (10V peak to peak). I'm not sure I understand how to amplify the signal, unless the audio interface handles that -- software like Silent Way (which is a VST) and Reaktor require only a DC-coupled interface like the ES-8 I'm contemplating and no other special hardware.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> - Dave
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 11:31 PM Michael Gogins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Try just sending the control voltage out your DAC.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> out 1
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Should send a DC level of 1 normalized to the maximum signal amplitude of your DAC. That should equate to about .445 volts for the -10 dBV line level of semiprofessional audio gear. You would need an amplifier to get that up to the 1 V/octave range of modular synthesizer gear. Be careful not to go too high, control voltages don't exceed 9 or 10.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Best,
>> >>>>>> Mike
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 22:01 Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Hi all,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I'm intrigued by audio interfaces like the Expert Sleepers ES-8, which allow software to send CV as well as audio into a modular synth. Software like Silent Way, Max/MSP, Pd and others apparently know how to do this. But I don't understand how they're doing it.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> How would I do this with Csound, assuming I was using an ES-8 as my audio interface? That is, what kind of signal would I need to emit from Csound such that it would be interpreted as control voltage (DC)? It is possible?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> (I know it's possible to use a MIDI-to-CV device to do this -- I do this to send gate signals to my modular system --  but then one is stuck with MIDI resolution, which isn't ideal for applications such as LFOs.)
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> - Dave
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>> >>>>
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Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] Csound with DC-coupled audio interfaces

Dave Seidel
Thanks, Tetsuya, I will report on my experiences once I have the ES-8.

- Dave

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 7:10 AM Tetsuya Miwa <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear Dave,

This is a very interesting discussion because I’m thinking of buying ES-8/ES-9. My plan is to connect my modular synth to Csound on my PC.
As Victor mentioned, ‘just audio-rate CV for everything’ is the way to go.

Tetsuya Miwa

> 2020/11/24 20:04、Dave Seidel <[hidden email]>のメール:
>
> That's possible, of course. The Qu-Bit Nebulae module has a Pi 3 embedded, though not usable for this purpose. However, I don't mind having the Pi in its own sturdy metal enclosure, because rack space is always at a premium. For me at least -- I have two 104 HP racks (one 7U, one 6U, each of which has a cover and can travel as carry-on luggage), and a 64 HP / 3U skiff, and I don't want to expand beyond that. For UI (when I need one), I run an Open Stage Control server on the Pi alongside Csound, using the Pi as a wifi hotspot, and use a tablet to display and operate the interface, giving me all the real time controls I need.
>
> Speaking of the skiff, I got this to house a WMD Performance Mixer, which I got very recently and is fantastic. I like to process audio in two or more parallel channels and then mix them together before they leave the rack, so this mixer is perfect.
>
> - Dave
>
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 5:43 AM Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Great.
> Please give us a report when it arrives. I was thinking the Pi could be mounted behind an eurorack panel into the rack beside the ES-8.
> I was thinking that this combination may give all the needed connectivity, without needing to use an extra arduino etc for digital controls. Just audio-rate CV for everything.
>
> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> Maynooth University
> Ireland
>
>> On Nov 24, 2020, at 10:34 AM, Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Victor, excellent. I bought one last night, can't wait to get it and try it out.
>>
>> As you may know, I'm already running Csound on a headless RPi 4, a combination I'm very happy with, so this should be great. I'm currently using the Pi with a USB audio interface and a small MIDI-to-CV box (so I can send gates), both going to Eurorack, and it will be very cool to be able to use the ES-8 for both functions. When I can travel and perform again (I hope before 2022), this will be very good for portability.
>>
>> - Dave
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 3:59 AM Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Looks like the ES-8 is the way to go. If it can match 0dbfs -> 10 V, and drop change in signal amplitude as a linear voltage, then it’s
>> game on. All you need is a little RPi running Csound beside it and you have a custom eurorackable Csound system.
>> ========================
>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
>> Maynooth University
>> Ireland
>>
>> > On 24 Nov 2020, at 03:28, alexandre burton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > *Warning*
>> >
>> > This email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
>> >
>> > the ES-8 is designed to match 0dBfs to +10VDC, so yes “out .5” will provide +5V, and "out .707” will give out +7.07V. negative voltages are possible, so for conventional CV behavior the main concern would be to shift your LFOs to positive: “out 0.5+oscil(0.5, 2,1)”.
>> >
>> > and take note that standard interfaces may output suprinsingly hot signals. MOTU has a CV product called Volta and documents the DC output of their interfaces here: https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmotu.com%2Ftechsupport%2Ftechnotes%2Ftesting-analog-outputs-for-control-voltage-compatibility&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=U2SLQkZt8JpeoKYmz%2FW6%2FRZBcVzwVZrvymQJvgYqytI%3D&amp;reserved=0 (make sure to click the gray zones at the botttom to reveal the data). some interfaces go up to 9V. that page also explain a multimeter method to match the output to CV values that could be replicated in Csound.
>> >
>> > alex.
>> >
>> >> On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:20 PM, Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Regarding "out N", that's all I'd expect to be necessary from csound,
>> >> and I'm sure you could verify by writing to a file or using jack to
>> >> route directly to a DAW to examine the signal. In terms of scaling,
>> >> I'd be surprised by anything other than full-scale being translated
>> >> linearly to the cv range.
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 1:15 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks, Justin. I understand what you're saying, but the fact is that there is plenty of software that works out of the box with the ES-8 (and other DC-coupled interfaces) with any additional hardware, so perhaps the interfaces themselves handle the differences in voltage. What I am trying to understand is specifically how to tell Csound to emit a suitable DC signal.  If it's as simple as Mike suggests using "out N", then great. I guess I'd have to measure the output of the ES-8 (since I have one) given different output levels from Csound, so that I'd understand how the scaling works. I have both a standalone scope and a Eurorack scope, so it should be easy enough to figure out.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 3:25 PM Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It looks like the ES-8 is specifically a eurorack device, so it should
>> >>>> "just work" for your purpose as advertised
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Pardon if I'm stating the obvious, but normal devices with digital
>> >>>> input and analog output are going to have an amplifier of some sort on
>> >>>> the output. The settings on the device and/or the software mixer
>> >>>> controls will decide what that amplification factor is for both
>> >>>> voltage and amperage (and often the choice of output port will as
>> >>>> well, eg. dedicated line out vs. headphone out vs. balanced output).
>> >>>> If you don't have an oscilloscope you can borrow / use, a cheap
>> >>>> digital volt meter can show you DC voltages. Usually gains / levels
>> >>>> are shown in db factor of some reference level, but that does
>> >>>> translate to specific voltages.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The hottest standard line level for pro audio gear is only +/-1.2
>> >>>> volts, so without designated synth equipment I'd expect that you'd
>> >>>> need to do a gain stage on the modular side. I'd definitely double
>> >>>> check which "cv" standard the interface works with, because there are
>> >>>> multiple definitions. I'd expect a c/v amplifier that takes consumer
>> >>>> or pro level line signal (maybe with a handly switch), and then
>> >>>> amplifies it to +/-5v or 0-8v range would be a cheap / simple thing to
>> >>>> make (simple enough that you might prefer to make it an optional
>> >>>> plug-in on some other module).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 3:45 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thanks, Mike. I don't have a suitable interface yet to try this with, but this does make me think it should be possible. I'm not necessarily seeking to send pitch voltages (this would be very cool, but probably an additional challenge to get the output calibrated properly for really accurate pitch tracking), but I'd certainly want to be able to produce a +/-5V signal (10V peak to peak). I'm not sure I understand how to amplify the signal, unless the audio interface handles that -- software like Silent Way (which is a VST) and Reaktor require only a DC-coupled interface like the ES-8 I'm contemplating and no other special hardware.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> - Dave
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 11:31 PM Michael Gogins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Try just sending the control voltage out your DAC.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> out 1
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Should send a DC level of 1 normalized to the maximum signal amplitude of your DAC. That should equate to about .445 volts for the -10 dBV line level of semiprofessional audio gear. You would need an amplifier to get that up to the 1 V/octave range of modular synthesizer gear. Be careful not to go too high, control voltages don't exceed 9 or 10.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Best,
>> >>>>>> Mike
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 22:01 Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Hi all,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I'm intrigued by audio interfaces like the Expert Sleepers ES-8, which allow software to send CV as well as audio into a modular synth. Software like Silent Way, Max/MSP, Pd and others apparently know how to do this. But I don't understand how they're doing it.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> How would I do this with Csound, assuming I was using an ES-8 as my audio interface? That is, what kind of signal would I need to emit from Csound such that it would be interpreted as control voltage (DC)? It is possible?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> (I know it's possible to use a MIDI-to-CV device to do this -- I do this to send gate signals to my modular system --  but then one is stuck with MIDI resolution, which isn't ideal for applications such as LFOs.)
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> - Dave
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Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] Csound with DC-coupled audio interfaces

Dave Seidel
I am happy to report that the Expert Sleepers ES-8 works very well with Csound -- for both audio and control voltage.

For audio, I had to specify "--format=long" and get the channel count correct. The ES-8 has 16 output channels (8 usables ones if you're not using ADAT, which I'm now) and 8 input channels (4 usable ones without ADAT). I'm using it at 96k and it sounds great.

For CV, I am seeing 0.1 output from Csound equal to 1 volt, so for example line(0, 1, 0.5) produces an upward ramp starting at 0v and ending at 5v. I appear to have a usable range of +/- 10v (20v P-P), so this is more than capable of the range needed for pitch voltages. You can also use negative values, thus bipolar CV.

One crucial bit for CV is to use outch() (or whatever outxxx variation) with k-rate signals, not a-rate.

I haven't tested this yet, but since the ES-8 has 4 input channels, I should be able to receive CV as well.

This is a pretty amazing capability! My current setup is Csound on a Raspberry Pi 4 with an external USB audio interface (sending audio into the modular system) and an external MIDI-to-CV interface (sending gates to the modular). Now, I'll be able to eliminate both external interfaces and stop having to use MIDI just to send gate signals, plus I'll now be able to send arbitrary CV signals. Very exciting.

- Dave

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 11:15 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks, Tetsuya, I will report on my experiences once I have the ES-8.

- Dave

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 7:10 AM Tetsuya Miwa <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear Dave,

This is a very interesting discussion because I’m thinking of buying ES-8/ES-9. My plan is to connect my modular synth to Csound on my PC.
As Victor mentioned, ‘just audio-rate CV for everything’ is the way to go.

Tetsuya Miwa

> 2020/11/24 20:04、Dave Seidel <[hidden email]>のメール:
>
> That's possible, of course. The Qu-Bit Nebulae module has a Pi 3 embedded, though not usable for this purpose. However, I don't mind having the Pi in its own sturdy metal enclosure, because rack space is always at a premium. For me at least -- I have two 104 HP racks (one 7U, one 6U, each of which has a cover and can travel as carry-on luggage), and a 64 HP / 3U skiff, and I don't want to expand beyond that. For UI (when I need one), I run an Open Stage Control server on the Pi alongside Csound, using the Pi as a wifi hotspot, and use a tablet to display and operate the interface, giving me all the real time controls I need.
>
> Speaking of the skiff, I got this to house a WMD Performance Mixer, which I got very recently and is fantastic. I like to process audio in two or more parallel channels and then mix them together before they leave the rack, so this mixer is perfect.
>
> - Dave
>
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 5:43 AM Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Great.
> Please give us a report when it arrives. I was thinking the Pi could be mounted behind an eurorack panel into the rack beside the ES-8.
> I was thinking that this combination may give all the needed connectivity, without needing to use an extra arduino etc for digital controls. Just audio-rate CV for everything.
>
> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> Maynooth University
> Ireland
>
>> On Nov 24, 2020, at 10:34 AM, Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Victor, excellent. I bought one last night, can't wait to get it and try it out.
>>
>> As you may know, I'm already running Csound on a headless RPi 4, a combination I'm very happy with, so this should be great. I'm currently using the Pi with a USB audio interface and a small MIDI-to-CV box (so I can send gates), both going to Eurorack, and it will be very cool to be able to use the ES-8 for both functions. When I can travel and perform again (I hope before 2022), this will be very good for portability.
>>
>> - Dave
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 3:59 AM Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Looks like the ES-8 is the way to go. If it can match 0dbfs -> 10 V, and drop change in signal amplitude as a linear voltage, then it’s
>> game on. All you need is a little RPi running Csound beside it and you have a custom eurorackable Csound system.
>> ========================
>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
>> Maynooth University
>> Ireland
>>
>> > On 24 Nov 2020, at 03:28, alexandre burton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > *Warning*
>> >
>> > This email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
>> >
>> > the ES-8 is designed to match 0dBfs to +10VDC, so yes “out .5” will provide +5V, and "out .707” will give out +7.07V. negative voltages are possible, so for conventional CV behavior the main concern would be to shift your LFOs to positive: “out 0.5+oscil(0.5, 2,1)”.
>> >
>> > and take note that standard interfaces may output suprinsingly hot signals. MOTU has a CV product called Volta and documents the DC output of their interfaces here: https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmotu.com%2Ftechsupport%2Ftechnotes%2Ftesting-analog-outputs-for-control-voltage-compatibility&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=U2SLQkZt8JpeoKYmz%2FW6%2FRZBcVzwVZrvymQJvgYqytI%3D&amp;reserved=0 (make sure to click the gray zones at the botttom to reveal the data). some interfaces go up to 9V. that page also explain a multimeter method to match the output to CV values that could be replicated in Csound.
>> >
>> > alex.
>> >
>> >> On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:20 PM, Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Regarding "out N", that's all I'd expect to be necessary from csound,
>> >> and I'm sure you could verify by writing to a file or using jack to
>> >> route directly to a DAW to examine the signal. In terms of scaling,
>> >> I'd be surprised by anything other than full-scale being translated
>> >> linearly to the cv range.
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 1:15 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks, Justin. I understand what you're saying, but the fact is that there is plenty of software that works out of the box with the ES-8 (and other DC-coupled interfaces) with any additional hardware, so perhaps the interfaces themselves handle the differences in voltage. What I am trying to understand is specifically how to tell Csound to emit a suitable DC signal.  If it's as simple as Mike suggests using "out N", then great. I guess I'd have to measure the output of the ES-8 (since I have one) given different output levels from Csound, so that I'd understand how the scaling works. I have both a standalone scope and a Eurorack scope, so it should be easy enough to figure out.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 3:25 PM Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It looks like the ES-8 is specifically a eurorack device, so it should
>> >>>> "just work" for your purpose as advertised
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Pardon if I'm stating the obvious, but normal devices with digital
>> >>>> input and analog output are going to have an amplifier of some sort on
>> >>>> the output. The settings on the device and/or the software mixer
>> >>>> controls will decide what that amplification factor is for both
>> >>>> voltage and amperage (and often the choice of output port will as
>> >>>> well, eg. dedicated line out vs. headphone out vs. balanced output).
>> >>>> If you don't have an oscilloscope you can borrow / use, a cheap
>> >>>> digital volt meter can show you DC voltages. Usually gains / levels
>> >>>> are shown in db factor of some reference level, but that does
>> >>>> translate to specific voltages.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The hottest standard line level for pro audio gear is only +/-1.2
>> >>>> volts, so without designated synth equipment I'd expect that you'd
>> >>>> need to do a gain stage on the modular side. I'd definitely double
>> >>>> check which "cv" standard the interface works with, because there are
>> >>>> multiple definitions. I'd expect a c/v amplifier that takes consumer
>> >>>> or pro level line signal (maybe with a handly switch), and then
>> >>>> amplifies it to +/-5v or 0-8v range would be a cheap / simple thing to
>> >>>> make (simple enough that you might prefer to make it an optional
>> >>>> plug-in on some other module).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 3:45 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thanks, Mike. I don't have a suitable interface yet to try this with, but this does make me think it should be possible. I'm not necessarily seeking to send pitch voltages (this would be very cool, but probably an additional challenge to get the output calibrated properly for really accurate pitch tracking), but I'd certainly want to be able to produce a +/-5V signal (10V peak to peak). I'm not sure I understand how to amplify the signal, unless the audio interface handles that -- software like Silent Way (which is a VST) and Reaktor require only a DC-coupled interface like the ES-8 I'm contemplating and no other special hardware.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> - Dave
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 11:31 PM Michael Gogins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Try just sending the control voltage out your DAC.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> out 1
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Should send a DC level of 1 normalized to the maximum signal amplitude of your DAC. That should equate to about .445 volts for the -10 dBV line level of semiprofessional audio gear. You would need an amplifier to get that up to the 1 V/octave range of modular synthesizer gear. Be careful not to go too high, control voltages don't exceed 9 or 10.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Best,
>> >>>>>> Mike
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 22:01 Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Hi all,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I'm intrigued by audio interfaces like the Expert Sleepers ES-8, which allow software to send CV as well as audio into a modular synth. Software like Silent Way, Max/MSP, Pd and others apparently know how to do this. But I don't understand how they're doing it.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> How would I do this with Csound, assuming I was using an ES-8 as my audio interface? That is, what kind of signal would I need to emit from Csound such that it would be interpreted as control voltage (DC)? It is possible?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> (I know it's possible to use a MIDI-to-CV device to do this -- I do this to send gate signals to my modular system --  but then one is stuck with MIDI resolution, which isn't ideal for applications such as LFOs.)
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> - Dave
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Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] Csound with DC-coupled audio interfaces

Dave Seidel
Correction -- I stated "One crucial bit for CV is to use outch() (or whatever outxxx variation) with k-rate signals, not a-rate." which is completely wrong. In fact, the opposite is true: it's necessary to coerce/cast the control signal to a-rate. For example:

instr 2
    idur = p3
    ichn = p4
    ibeg = p5
    iend = p6

    outch(ichn, line:a(ibeg, idur, iend))
endin

On Sat, Nov 28, 2020 at 10:40 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
I am happy to report that the Expert Sleepers ES-8 works very well with Csound -- for both audio and control voltage.

For audio, I had to specify "--format=long" and get the channel count correct. The ES-8 has 16 output channels (8 usables ones if you're not using ADAT, which I'm now) and 8 input channels (4 usable ones without ADAT). I'm using it at 96k and it sounds great.

For CV, I am seeing 0.1 output from Csound equal to 1 volt, so for example line(0, 1, 0.5) produces an upward ramp starting at 0v and ending at 5v. I appear to have a usable range of +/- 10v (20v P-P), so this is more than capable of the range needed for pitch voltages. You can also use negative values, thus bipolar CV.

One crucial bit for CV is to use outch() (or whatever outxxx variation) with k-rate signals, not a-rate.

I haven't tested this yet, but since the ES-8 has 4 input channels, I should be able to receive CV as well.

This is a pretty amazing capability! My current setup is Csound on a Raspberry Pi 4 with an external USB audio interface (sending audio into the modular system) and an external MIDI-to-CV interface (sending gates to the modular). Now, I'll be able to eliminate both external interfaces and stop having to use MIDI just to send gate signals, plus I'll now be able to send arbitrary CV signals. Very exciting.

- Dave

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 11:15 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks, Tetsuya, I will report on my experiences once I have the ES-8.

- Dave

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 7:10 AM Tetsuya Miwa <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear Dave,

This is a very interesting discussion because I’m thinking of buying ES-8/ES-9. My plan is to connect my modular synth to Csound on my PC.
As Victor mentioned, ‘just audio-rate CV for everything’ is the way to go.

Tetsuya Miwa

> 2020/11/24 20:04、Dave Seidel <[hidden email]>のメール:
>
> That's possible, of course. The Qu-Bit Nebulae module has a Pi 3 embedded, though not usable for this purpose. However, I don't mind having the Pi in its own sturdy metal enclosure, because rack space is always at a premium. For me at least -- I have two 104 HP racks (one 7U, one 6U, each of which has a cover and can travel as carry-on luggage), and a 64 HP / 3U skiff, and I don't want to expand beyond that. For UI (when I need one), I run an Open Stage Control server on the Pi alongside Csound, using the Pi as a wifi hotspot, and use a tablet to display and operate the interface, giving me all the real time controls I need.
>
> Speaking of the skiff, I got this to house a WMD Performance Mixer, which I got very recently and is fantastic. I like to process audio in two or more parallel channels and then mix them together before they leave the rack, so this mixer is perfect.
>
> - Dave
>
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 5:43 AM Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Great.
> Please give us a report when it arrives. I was thinking the Pi could be mounted behind an eurorack panel into the rack beside the ES-8.
> I was thinking that this combination may give all the needed connectivity, without needing to use an extra arduino etc for digital controls. Just audio-rate CV for everything.
>
> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> Maynooth University
> Ireland
>
>> On Nov 24, 2020, at 10:34 AM, Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Victor, excellent. I bought one last night, can't wait to get it and try it out.
>>
>> As you may know, I'm already running Csound on a headless RPi 4, a combination I'm very happy with, so this should be great. I'm currently using the Pi with a USB audio interface and a small MIDI-to-CV box (so I can send gates), both going to Eurorack, and it will be very cool to be able to use the ES-8 for both functions. When I can travel and perform again (I hope before 2022), this will be very good for portability.
>>
>> - Dave
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 3:59 AM Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Looks like the ES-8 is the way to go. If it can match 0dbfs -> 10 V, and drop change in signal amplitude as a linear voltage, then it’s
>> game on. All you need is a little RPi running Csound beside it and you have a custom eurorackable Csound system.
>> ========================
>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
>> Maynooth University
>> Ireland
>>
>> > On 24 Nov 2020, at 03:28, alexandre burton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > *Warning*
>> >
>> > This email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
>> >
>> > the ES-8 is designed to match 0dBfs to +10VDC, so yes “out .5” will provide +5V, and "out .707” will give out +7.07V. negative voltages are possible, so for conventional CV behavior the main concern would be to shift your LFOs to positive: “out 0.5+oscil(0.5, 2,1)”.
>> >
>> > and take note that standard interfaces may output suprinsingly hot signals. MOTU has a CV product called Volta and documents the DC output of their interfaces here: https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmotu.com%2Ftechsupport%2Ftechnotes%2Ftesting-analog-outputs-for-control-voltage-compatibility&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=U2SLQkZt8JpeoKYmz%2FW6%2FRZBcVzwVZrvymQJvgYqytI%3D&amp;reserved=0 (make sure to click the gray zones at the botttom to reveal the data). some interfaces go up to 9V. that page also explain a multimeter method to match the output to CV values that could be replicated in Csound.
>> >
>> > alex.
>> >
>> >> On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:20 PM, Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Regarding "out N", that's all I'd expect to be necessary from csound,
>> >> and I'm sure you could verify by writing to a file or using jack to
>> >> route directly to a DAW to examine the signal. In terms of scaling,
>> >> I'd be surprised by anything other than full-scale being translated
>> >> linearly to the cv range.
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 1:15 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks, Justin. I understand what you're saying, but the fact is that there is plenty of software that works out of the box with the ES-8 (and other DC-coupled interfaces) with any additional hardware, so perhaps the interfaces themselves handle the differences in voltage. What I am trying to understand is specifically how to tell Csound to emit a suitable DC signal.  If it's as simple as Mike suggests using "out N", then great. I guess I'd have to measure the output of the ES-8 (since I have one) given different output levels from Csound, so that I'd understand how the scaling works. I have both a standalone scope and a Eurorack scope, so it should be easy enough to figure out.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 3:25 PM Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It looks like the ES-8 is specifically a eurorack device, so it should
>> >>>> "just work" for your purpose as advertised
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Pardon if I'm stating the obvious, but normal devices with digital
>> >>>> input and analog output are going to have an amplifier of some sort on
>> >>>> the output. The settings on the device and/or the software mixer
>> >>>> controls will decide what that amplification factor is for both
>> >>>> voltage and amperage (and often the choice of output port will as
>> >>>> well, eg. dedicated line out vs. headphone out vs. balanced output).
>> >>>> If you don't have an oscilloscope you can borrow / use, a cheap
>> >>>> digital volt meter can show you DC voltages. Usually gains / levels
>> >>>> are shown in db factor of some reference level, but that does
>> >>>> translate to specific voltages.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The hottest standard line level for pro audio gear is only +/-1.2
>> >>>> volts, so without designated synth equipment I'd expect that you'd
>> >>>> need to do a gain stage on the modular side. I'd definitely double
>> >>>> check which "cv" standard the interface works with, because there are
>> >>>> multiple definitions. I'd expect a c/v amplifier that takes consumer
>> >>>> or pro level line signal (maybe with a handly switch), and then
>> >>>> amplifies it to +/-5v or 0-8v range would be a cheap / simple thing to
>> >>>> make (simple enough that you might prefer to make it an optional
>> >>>> plug-in on some other module).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 3:45 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thanks, Mike. I don't have a suitable interface yet to try this with, but this does make me think it should be possible. I'm not necessarily seeking to send pitch voltages (this would be very cool, but probably an additional challenge to get the output calibrated properly for really accurate pitch tracking), but I'd certainly want to be able to produce a +/-5V signal (10V peak to peak). I'm not sure I understand how to amplify the signal, unless the audio interface handles that -- software like Silent Way (which is a VST) and Reaktor require only a DC-coupled interface like the ES-8 I'm contemplating and no other special hardware.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> - Dave
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 11:31 PM Michael Gogins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Try just sending the control voltage out your DAC.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> out 1
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Should send a DC level of 1 normalized to the maximum signal amplitude of your DAC. That should equate to about .445 volts for the -10 dBV line level of semiprofessional audio gear. You would need an amplifier to get that up to the 1 V/octave range of modular synthesizer gear. Be careful not to go too high, control voltages don't exceed 9 or 10.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Best,
>> >>>>>> Mike
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 22:01 Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Hi all,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I'm intrigued by audio interfaces like the Expert Sleepers ES-8, which allow software to send CV as well as audio into a modular synth. Software like Silent Way, Max/MSP, Pd and others apparently know how to do this. But I don't understand how they're doing it.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> How would I do this with Csound, assuming I was using an ES-8 as my audio interface? That is, what kind of signal would I need to emit from Csound such that it would be interpreted as control voltage (DC)? It is possible?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> (I know it's possible to use a MIDI-to-CV device to do this -- I do this to send gate signals to my modular system --  but then one is stuck with MIDI resolution, which isn't ideal for applications such as LFOs.)
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> - Dave
>> >>>>>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=ai6HUfO13dsL8qi62FVJTwlsQKI7ArJyhspPx0bN1GI%3D&amp;reserved=0 Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=1ElQaOu%2BC6ElSywIOSan9HcLDQkIYzHWJfrq98lFPQo%3D&amp;reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >>>>>>
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>> >>>>>
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>> >>>>
>> >>>> Csound mailing list
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>> >>>> Send bugs reports to
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>> >>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >>>
>> >>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=HrFwcPZAeF1qYyi5s37T9xalDFhVRAFIvVz3ib%2FmCmM%3D&amp;reserved=0 Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=Q3q%2FNJm5e61oIUtvRFQNhpZSIhRXiyL8NsLpUPg%2BHJo%3D&amp;reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >>
>> >> Csound mailing list
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>> >> Send bugs reports to
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>> >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >
>> > Csound mailing list
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>> > Send bugs reports to
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>> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>>
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Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] Csound with DC-coupled audio interfaces

Tetsuya Miwa
In reply to this post by Dave Seidel
Dear Dave,

Thank you for sharing the report. This is definitely a good news for Cyber Monday. I need to buy ES-8/ES-9!

Tetsuya Miwa

> 2020/11/29 12:40、Dave Seidel <[hidden email]>のメール:
>
> I am happy to report that the Expert Sleepers ES-8 works very well with Csound -- for both audio and control voltage.
>
> For audio, I had to specify "--format=long" and get the channel count correct. The ES-8 has 16 output channels (8 usables ones if you're not using ADAT, which I'm now) and 8 input channels (4 usable ones without ADAT). I'm using it at 96k and it sounds great.
>
> For CV, I am seeing 0.1 output from Csound equal to 1 volt, so for example line(0, 1, 0.5) produces an upward ramp starting at 0v and ending at 5v. I appear to have a usable range of +/- 10v (20v P-P), so this is more than capable of the range needed for pitch voltages. You can also use negative values, thus bipolar CV.
>
> One crucial bit for CV is to use outch() (or whatever outxxx variation) with k-rate signals, not a-rate.
>
> I haven't tested this yet, but since the ES-8 has 4 input channels, I should be able to receive CV as well.
>
> This is a pretty amazing capability! My current setup is Csound on a Raspberry Pi 4 with an external USB audio interface (sending audio into the modular system) and an external MIDI-to-CV interface (sending gates to the modular). Now, I'll be able to eliminate both external interfaces and stop having to use MIDI just to send gate signals, plus I'll now be able to send arbitrary CV signals. Very exciting.
>
> - Dave
>
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 11:15 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thanks, Tetsuya, I will report on my experiences once I have the ES-8.
>
> - Dave
>
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 7:10 AM Tetsuya Miwa <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Dear Dave,
>
> This is a very interesting discussion because I’m thinking of buying ES-8/ES-9. My plan is to connect my modular synth to Csound on my PC.
> As Victor mentioned, ‘just audio-rate CV for everything’ is the way to go.
>
> Tetsuya Miwa
>
> > 2020/11/24 20:04、Dave Seidel <[hidden email]>のメール:
> >
> > That's possible, of course. The Qu-Bit Nebulae module has a Pi 3 embedded, though not usable for this purpose. However, I don't mind having the Pi in its own sturdy metal enclosure, because rack space is always at a premium. For me at least -- I have two 104 HP racks (one 7U, one 6U, each of which has a cover and can travel as carry-on luggage), and a 64 HP / 3U skiff, and I don't want to expand beyond that. For UI (when I need one), I run an Open Stage Control server on the Pi alongside Csound, using the Pi as a wifi hotspot, and use a tablet to display and operate the interface, giving me all the real time controls I need.
> >
> > Speaking of the skiff, I got this to house a WMD Performance Mixer, which I got very recently and is fantastic. I like to process audio in two or more parallel channels and then mix them together before they leave the rack, so this mixer is perfect.
> >
> > - Dave
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 5:43 AM Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Great.
> > Please give us a report when it arrives. I was thinking the Pi could be mounted behind an eurorack panel into the rack beside the ES-8.
> > I was thinking that this combination may give all the needed connectivity, without needing to use an extra arduino etc for digital controls. Just audio-rate CV for everything.
> >
> > Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> > Maynooth University
> > Ireland
> >
> >> On Nov 24, 2020, at 10:34 AM, Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> 
> >> Victor, excellent. I bought one last night, can't wait to get it and try it out.
> >>
> >> As you may know, I'm already running Csound on a headless RPi 4, a combination I'm very happy with, so this should be great. I'm currently using the Pi with a USB audio interface and a small MIDI-to-CV box (so I can send gates), both going to Eurorack, and it will be very cool to be able to use the ES-8 for both functions. When I can travel and perform again (I hope before 2022), this will be very good for portability.
> >>
> >> - Dave
> >>
> >> On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 3:59 AM Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Looks like the ES-8 is the way to go. If it can match 0dbfs -> 10 V, and drop change in signal amplitude as a linear voltage, then it’s
> >> game on. All you need is a little RPi running Csound beside it and you have a custom eurorackable Csound system.
> >> ========================
> >> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> >> Maynooth University
> >> Ireland
> >>
> >> > On 24 Nov 2020, at 03:28, alexandre burton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > *Warning*
> >> >
> >> > This email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
> >> >
> >> > the ES-8 is designed to match 0dBfs to +10VDC, so yes “out .5” will provide +5V, and "out .707” will give out +7.07V. negative voltages are possible, so for conventional CV behavior the main concern would be to shift your LFOs to positive: “out 0.5+oscil(0.5, 2,1)”.
> >> >
> >> > and take note that standard interfaces may output suprinsingly hot signals. MOTU has a CV product called Volta and documents the DC output of their interfaces here: https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmotu.com%2Ftechsupport%2Ftechnotes%2Ftesting-analog-outputs-for-control-voltage-compatibility&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=U2SLQkZt8JpeoKYmz%2FW6%2FRZBcVzwVZrvymQJvgYqytI%3D&amp;reserved=0 (make sure to click the gray zones at the botttom to reveal the data). some interfaces go up to 9V. that page also explain a multimeter method to match the output to CV values that could be replicated in Csound.
> >> >
> >> > alex.
> >> >
> >> >> On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:20 PM, Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Regarding "out N", that's all I'd expect to be necessary from csound,
> >> >> and I'm sure you could verify by writing to a file or using jack to
> >> >> route directly to a DAW to examine the signal. In terms of scaling,
> >> >> I'd be surprised by anything other than full-scale being translated
> >> >> linearly to the cv range.
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 1:15 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks, Justin. I understand what you're saying, but the fact is that there is plenty of software that works out of the box with the ES-8 (and other DC-coupled interfaces) with any additional hardware, so perhaps the interfaces themselves handle the differences in voltage. What I am trying to understand is specifically how to tell Csound to emit a suitable DC signal.  If it's as simple as Mike suggests using "out N", then great. I guess I'd have to measure the output of the ES-8 (since I have one) given different output levels from Csound, so that I'd understand how the scaling works. I have both a standalone scope and a Eurorack scope, so it should be easy enough to figure out.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 3:25 PM Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> It looks like the ES-8 is specifically a eurorack device, so it should
> >> >>>> "just work" for your purpose as advertised
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Pardon if I'm stating the obvious, but normal devices with digital
> >> >>>> input and analog output are going to have an amplifier of some sort on
> >> >>>> the output. The settings on the device and/or the software mixer
> >> >>>> controls will decide what that amplification factor is for both
> >> >>>> voltage and amperage (and often the choice of output port will as
> >> >>>> well, eg. dedicated line out vs. headphone out vs. balanced output).
> >> >>>> If you don't have an oscilloscope you can borrow / use, a cheap
> >> >>>> digital volt meter can show you DC voltages. Usually gains / levels
> >> >>>> are shown in db factor of some reference level, but that does
> >> >>>> translate to specific voltages.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> The hottest standard line level for pro audio gear is only +/-1.2
> >> >>>> volts, so without designated synth equipment I'd expect that you'd
> >> >>>> need to do a gain stage on the modular side. I'd definitely double
> >> >>>> check which "cv" standard the interface works with, because there are
> >> >>>> multiple definitions. I'd expect a c/v amplifier that takes consumer
> >> >>>> or pro level line signal (maybe with a handly switch), and then
> >> >>>> amplifies it to +/-5v or 0-8v range would be a cheap / simple thing to
> >> >>>> make (simple enough that you might prefer to make it an optional
> >> >>>> plug-in on some other module).
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 3:45 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Thanks, Mike. I don't have a suitable interface yet to try this with, but this does make me think it should be possible. I'm not necessarily seeking to send pitch voltages (this would be very cool, but probably an additional challenge to get the output calibrated properly for really accurate pitch tracking), but I'd certainly want to be able to produce a +/-5V signal (10V peak to peak). I'm not sure I understand how to amplify the signal, unless the audio interface handles that -- software like Silent Way (which is a VST) and Reaktor require only a DC-coupled interface like the ES-8 I'm contemplating and no other special hardware.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> - Dave
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 11:31 PM Michael Gogins <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Try just sending the control voltage out your DAC.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> out 1
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Should send a DC level of 1 normalized to the maximum signal amplitude of your DAC. That should equate to about .445 volts for the -10 dBV line level of semiprofessional audio gear. You would need an amplifier to get that up to the 1 V/octave range of modular synthesizer gear. Be careful not to go too high, control voltages don't exceed 9 or 10.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Best,
> >> >>>>>> Mike
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 22:01 Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Hi all,
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> I'm intrigued by audio interfaces like the Expert Sleepers ES-8, which allow software to send CV as well as audio into a modular synth. Software like Silent Way, Max/MSP, Pd and others apparently know how to do this. But I don't understand how they're doing it.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> How would I do this with Csound, assuming I was using an ES-8 as my audio interface? That is, what kind of signal would I need to emit from Csound such that it would be interpreted as control voltage (DC)? It is possible?
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> (I know it's possible to use a MIDI-to-CV device to do this -- I do this to send gate signals to my modular system --  but then one is stuck with MIDI resolution, which isn't ideal for applications such as LFOs.)
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> - Dave
> >> >>>>>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=ai6HUfO13dsL8qi62FVJTwlsQKI7ArJyhspPx0bN1GI%3D&amp;reserved=0 Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=1ElQaOu%2BC6ElSywIOSan9HcLDQkIYzHWJfrq98lFPQo%3D&amp;reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=ai6HUfO13dsL8qi62FVJTwlsQKI7ArJyhspPx0bN1GI%3D&amp;reserved=0 Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=1ElQaOu%2BC6ElSywIOSan9HcLDQkIYzHWJfrq98lFPQo%3D&amp;reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=ai6HUfO13dsL8qi62FVJTwlsQKI7ArJyhspPx0bN1GI%3D&amp;reserved=0 Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=1ElQaOu%2BC6ElSywIOSan9HcLDQkIYzHWJfrq98lFPQo%3D&amp;reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Csound mailing list
> >> >>>> [hidden email]
> >> >>>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=HrFwcPZAeF1qYyi5s37T9xalDFhVRAFIvVz3ib%2FmCmM%3D&amp;reserved=0
> >> >>>> Send bugs reports to
> >> >>>>       https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=Q3q%2FNJm5e61oIUtvRFQNhpZSIhRXiyL8NsLpUPg%2BHJo%3D&amp;reserved=0
> >> >>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=HrFwcPZAeF1qYyi5s37T9xalDFhVRAFIvVz3ib%2FmCmM%3D&amp;reserved=0 Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=Q3q%2FNJm5e61oIUtvRFQNhpZSIhRXiyL8NsLpUPg%2BHJo%3D&amp;reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >> >>
> >> >> Csound mailing list
> >> >> [hidden email]
> >> >> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=HrFwcPZAeF1qYyi5s37T9xalDFhVRAFIvVz3ib%2FmCmM%3D&amp;reserved=0
> >> >> Send bugs reports to
> >> >>       https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=Q3q%2FNJm5e61oIUtvRFQNhpZSIhRXiyL8NsLpUPg%2BHJo%3D&amp;reserved=0
> >> >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >> >
> >> > Csound mailing list
> >> > [hidden email]
> >> > https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=HrFwcPZAeF1qYyi5s37T9xalDFhVRAFIvVz3ib%2FmCmM%3D&amp;reserved=0
> >> > Send bugs reports to
> >> >        https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=Q3q%2FNJm5e61oIUtvRFQNhpZSIhRXiyL8NsLpUPg%2BHJo%3D&amp;reserved=0
> >> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >>
> >>
> >> Csound mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >> Send bugs reports to
> >>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> > Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> > Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] Csound with DC-coupled audio interfaces

Victor Lazzarini-2
In reply to this post by Dave Seidel
Surprised about --format=long, because that is supposed to affect only soundfiles, not realtime audio.

Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Maynooth University
Ireland

On Nov 29, 2020, at 12:00 PM, Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:


Correction -- I stated "One crucial bit for CV is to use outch() (or whatever outxxx variation) with k-rate signals, not a-rate." which is completely wrong. In fact, the opposite is true: it's necessary to coerce/cast the control signal to a-rate. For example:

instr 2
    idur = p3
    ichn = p4
    ibeg = p5
    iend = p6

    outch(ichn, line:a(ibeg, idur, iend))
endin

On Sat, Nov 28, 2020 at 10:40 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
I am happy to report that the Expert Sleepers ES-8 works very well with Csound -- for both audio and control voltage.

For audio, I had to specify "--format=long" and get the channel count correct. The ES-8 has 16 output channels (8 usables ones if you're not using ADAT, which I'm now) and 8 input channels (4 usable ones without ADAT). I'm using it at 96k and it sounds great.

For CV, I am seeing 0.1 output from Csound equal to 1 volt, so for example line(0, 1, 0.5) produces an upward ramp starting at 0v and ending at 5v. I appear to have a usable range of +/- 10v (20v P-P), so this is more than capable of the range needed for pitch voltages. You can also use negative values, thus bipolar CV.

One crucial bit for CV is to use outch() (or whatever outxxx variation) with k-rate signals, not a-rate.

I haven't tested this yet, but since the ES-8 has 4 input channels, I should be able to receive CV as well.

This is a pretty amazing capability! My current setup is Csound on a Raspberry Pi 4 with an external USB audio interface (sending audio into the modular system) and an external MIDI-to-CV interface (sending gates to the modular). Now, I'll be able to eliminate both external interfaces and stop having to use MIDI just to send gate signals, plus I'll now be able to send arbitrary CV signals. Very exciting.

- Dave

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 11:15 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks, Tetsuya, I will report on my experiences once I have the ES-8.

- Dave

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 7:10 AM Tetsuya Miwa <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear Dave,

This is a very interesting discussion because I’m thinking of buying ES-8/ES-9. My plan is to connect my modular synth to Csound on my PC.
As Victor mentioned, ‘just audio-rate CV for everything’ is the way to go.

Tetsuya Miwa

> 2020/11/24 20:04、Dave Seidel <[hidden email]>のメール:
>
> That's possible, of course. The Qu-Bit Nebulae module has a Pi 3 embedded, though not usable for this purpose. However, I don't mind having the Pi in its own sturdy metal enclosure, because rack space is always at a premium. For me at least -- I have two 104 HP racks (one 7U, one 6U, each of which has a cover and can travel as carry-on luggage), and a 64 HP / 3U skiff, and I don't want to expand beyond that. For UI (when I need one), I run an Open Stage Control server on the Pi alongside Csound, using the Pi as a wifi hotspot, and use a tablet to display and operate the interface, giving me all the real time controls I need.
>
> Speaking of the skiff, I got this to house a WMD Performance Mixer, which I got very recently and is fantastic. I like to process audio in two or more parallel channels and then mix them together before they leave the rack, so this mixer is perfect.
>
> - Dave
>
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 5:43 AM Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Great.
> Please give us a report when it arrives. I was thinking the Pi could be mounted behind an eurorack panel into the rack beside the ES-8.
> I was thinking that this combination may give all the needed connectivity, without needing to use an extra arduino etc for digital controls. Just audio-rate CV for everything.
>
> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> Maynooth University
> Ireland
>
>> On Nov 24, 2020, at 10:34 AM, Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Victor, excellent. I bought one last night, can't wait to get it and try it out.
>>
>> As you may know, I'm already running Csound on a headless RPi 4, a combination I'm very happy with, so this should be great. I'm currently using the Pi with a USB audio interface and a small MIDI-to-CV box (so I can send gates), both going to Eurorack, and it will be very cool to be able to use the ES-8 for both functions. When I can travel and perform again (I hope before 2022), this will be very good for portability.
>>
>> - Dave
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 3:59 AM Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Looks like the ES-8 is the way to go. If it can match 0dbfs -> 10 V, and drop change in signal amplitude as a linear voltage, then it’s
>> game on. All you need is a little RPi running Csound beside it and you have a custom eurorackable Csound system.
>> ========================
>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
>> Maynooth University
>> Ireland
>>
>> > On 24 Nov 2020, at 03:28, alexandre burton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > *Warning*
>> >
>> > This email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
>> >
>> > the ES-8 is designed to match 0dBfs to +10VDC, so yes “out .5” will provide +5V, and "out .707” will give out +7.07V. negative voltages are possible, so for conventional CV behavior the main concern would be to shift your LFOs to positive: “out 0.5+oscil(0.5, 2,1)”.
>> >
>> > and take note that standard interfaces may output suprinsingly hot signals. MOTU has a CV product called Volta and documents the DC output of their interfaces here: https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmotu.com%2Ftechsupport%2Ftechnotes%2Ftesting-analog-outputs-for-control-voltage-compatibility&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=U2SLQkZt8JpeoKYmz%2FW6%2FRZBcVzwVZrvymQJvgYqytI%3D&amp;reserved=0 (make sure to click the gray zones at the botttom to reveal the data). some interfaces go up to 9V. that page also explain a multimeter method to match the output to CV values that could be replicated in Csound.
>> >
>> > alex.
>> >
>> >> On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:20 PM, Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Regarding "out N", that's all I'd expect to be necessary from csound,
>> >> and I'm sure you could verify by writing to a file or using jack to
>> >> route directly to a DAW to examine the signal. In terms of scaling,
>> >> I'd be surprised by anything other than full-scale being translated
>> >> linearly to the cv range.
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 1:15 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks, Justin. I understand what you're saying, but the fact is that there is plenty of software that works out of the box with the ES-8 (and other DC-coupled interfaces) with any additional hardware, so perhaps the interfaces themselves handle the differences in voltage. What I am trying to understand is specifically how to tell Csound to emit a suitable DC signal.  If it's as simple as Mike suggests using "out N", then great. I guess I'd have to measure the output of the ES-8 (since I have one) given different output levels from Csound, so that I'd understand how the scaling works. I have both a standalone scope and a Eurorack scope, so it should be easy enough to figure out.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 3:25 PM Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It looks like the ES-8 is specifically a eurorack device, so it should
>> >>>> "just work" for your purpose as advertised
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Pardon if I'm stating the obvious, but normal devices with digital
>> >>>> input and analog output are going to have an amplifier of some sort on
>> >>>> the output. The settings on the device and/or the software mixer
>> >>>> controls will decide what that amplification factor is for both
>> >>>> voltage and amperage (and often the choice of output port will as
>> >>>> well, eg. dedicated line out vs. headphone out vs. balanced output).
>> >>>> If you don't have an oscilloscope you can borrow / use, a cheap
>> >>>> digital volt meter can show you DC voltages. Usually gains / levels
>> >>>> are shown in db factor of some reference level, but that does
>> >>>> translate to specific voltages.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The hottest standard line level for pro audio gear is only +/-1.2
>> >>>> volts, so without designated synth equipment I'd expect that you'd
>> >>>> need to do a gain stage on the modular side. I'd definitely double
>> >>>> check which "cv" standard the interface works with, because there are
>> >>>> multiple definitions. I'd expect a c/v amplifier that takes consumer
>> >>>> or pro level line signal (maybe with a handly switch), and then
>> >>>> amplifies it to +/-5v or 0-8v range would be a cheap / simple thing to
>> >>>> make (simple enough that you might prefer to make it an optional
>> >>>> plug-in on some other module).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 3:45 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thanks, Mike. I don't have a suitable interface yet to try this with, but this does make me think it should be possible. I'm not necessarily seeking to send pitch voltages (this would be very cool, but probably an additional challenge to get the output calibrated properly for really accurate pitch tracking), but I'd certainly want to be able to produce a +/-5V signal (10V peak to peak). I'm not sure I understand how to amplify the signal, unless the audio interface handles that -- software like Silent Way (which is a VST) and Reaktor require only a DC-coupled interface like the ES-8 I'm contemplating and no other special hardware.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> - Dave
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 11:31 PM Michael Gogins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Try just sending the control voltage out your DAC.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> out 1
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Should send a DC level of 1 normalized to the maximum signal amplitude of your DAC. That should equate to about .445 volts for the -10 dBV line level of semiprofessional audio gear. You would need an amplifier to get that up to the 1 V/octave range of modular synthesizer gear. Be careful not to go too high, control voltages don't exceed 9 or 10.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Best,
>> >>>>>> Mike
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 22:01 Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Hi all,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I'm intrigued by audio interfaces like the Expert Sleepers ES-8, which allow software to send CV as well as audio into a modular synth. Software like Silent Way, Max/MSP, Pd and others apparently know how to do this. But I don't understand how they're doing it.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> How would I do this with Csound, assuming I was using an ES-8 as my audio interface? That is, what kind of signal would I need to emit from Csound such that it would be interpreted as control voltage (DC)? It is possible?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> (I know it's possible to use a MIDI-to-CV device to do this -- I do this to send gate signals to my modular system --  but then one is stuck with MIDI resolution, which isn't ideal for applications such as LFOs.)
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> - Dave
>> >>>>>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=ai6HUfO13dsL8qi62FVJTwlsQKI7ArJyhspPx0bN1GI%3D&amp;reserved=0 Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=1ElQaOu%2BC6ElSywIOSan9HcLDQkIYzHWJfrq98lFPQo%3D&amp;reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >>>>>>
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>> >>>>>
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>> >>>>
>> >>>> Csound mailing list
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>> >>>> Send bugs reports to
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>> >>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >>>
>> >>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=HrFwcPZAeF1qYyi5s37T9xalDFhVRAFIvVz3ib%2FmCmM%3D&amp;reserved=0 Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=Q3q%2FNJm5e61oIUtvRFQNhpZSIhRXiyL8NsLpUPg%2BHJo%3D&amp;reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >>
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>> >> Send bugs reports to
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>> >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >
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>> > Send bugs reports to
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>> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>>
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Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] Csound with DC-coupled audio interfaces

Dave Seidel
I was surprised as well, but I could not open the ES-8 for output without it. Unless there was some other factor and this was just a coincidence.

On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 10:49 AM Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
Surprised about --format=long, because that is supposed to affect only soundfiles, not realtime audio.

Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Maynooth University
Ireland

On Nov 29, 2020, at 12:00 PM, Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:


Correction -- I stated "One crucial bit for CV is to use outch() (or whatever outxxx variation) with k-rate signals, not a-rate." which is completely wrong. In fact, the opposite is true: it's necessary to coerce/cast the control signal to a-rate. For example:

instr 2
    idur = p3
    ichn = p4
    ibeg = p5
    iend = p6

    outch(ichn, line:a(ibeg, idur, iend))
endin

On Sat, Nov 28, 2020 at 10:40 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
I am happy to report that the Expert Sleepers ES-8 works very well with Csound -- for both audio and control voltage.

For audio, I had to specify "--format=long" and get the channel count correct. The ES-8 has 16 output channels (8 usables ones if you're not using ADAT, which I'm now) and 8 input channels (4 usable ones without ADAT). I'm using it at 96k and it sounds great.

For CV, I am seeing 0.1 output from Csound equal to 1 volt, so for example line(0, 1, 0.5) produces an upward ramp starting at 0v and ending at 5v. I appear to have a usable range of +/- 10v (20v P-P), so this is more than capable of the range needed for pitch voltages. You can also use negative values, thus bipolar CV.

One crucial bit for CV is to use outch() (or whatever outxxx variation) with k-rate signals, not a-rate.

I haven't tested this yet, but since the ES-8 has 4 input channels, I should be able to receive CV as well.

This is a pretty amazing capability! My current setup is Csound on a Raspberry Pi 4 with an external USB audio interface (sending audio into the modular system) and an external MIDI-to-CV interface (sending gates to the modular). Now, I'll be able to eliminate both external interfaces and stop having to use MIDI just to send gate signals, plus I'll now be able to send arbitrary CV signals. Very exciting.

- Dave

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 11:15 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks, Tetsuya, I will report on my experiences once I have the ES-8.

- Dave

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 7:10 AM Tetsuya Miwa <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear Dave,

This is a very interesting discussion because I’m thinking of buying ES-8/ES-9. My plan is to connect my modular synth to Csound on my PC.
As Victor mentioned, ‘just audio-rate CV for everything’ is the way to go.

Tetsuya Miwa

> 2020/11/24 20:04、Dave Seidel <[hidden email]>のメール:
>
> That's possible, of course. The Qu-Bit Nebulae module has a Pi 3 embedded, though not usable for this purpose. However, I don't mind having the Pi in its own sturdy metal enclosure, because rack space is always at a premium. For me at least -- I have two 104 HP racks (one 7U, one 6U, each of which has a cover and can travel as carry-on luggage), and a 64 HP / 3U skiff, and I don't want to expand beyond that. For UI (when I need one), I run an Open Stage Control server on the Pi alongside Csound, using the Pi as a wifi hotspot, and use a tablet to display and operate the interface, giving me all the real time controls I need.
>
> Speaking of the skiff, I got this to house a WMD Performance Mixer, which I got very recently and is fantastic. I like to process audio in two or more parallel channels and then mix them together before they leave the rack, so this mixer is perfect.
>
> - Dave
>
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 5:43 AM Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Great.
> Please give us a report when it arrives. I was thinking the Pi could be mounted behind an eurorack panel into the rack beside the ES-8.
> I was thinking that this combination may give all the needed connectivity, without needing to use an extra arduino etc for digital controls. Just audio-rate CV for everything.
>
> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> Maynooth University
> Ireland
>
>> On Nov 24, 2020, at 10:34 AM, Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Victor, excellent. I bought one last night, can't wait to get it and try it out.
>>
>> As you may know, I'm already running Csound on a headless RPi 4, a combination I'm very happy with, so this should be great. I'm currently using the Pi with a USB audio interface and a small MIDI-to-CV box (so I can send gates), both going to Eurorack, and it will be very cool to be able to use the ES-8 for both functions. When I can travel and perform again (I hope before 2022), this will be very good for portability.
>>
>> - Dave
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 3:59 AM Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Looks like the ES-8 is the way to go. If it can match 0dbfs -> 10 V, and drop change in signal amplitude as a linear voltage, then it’s
>> game on. All you need is a little RPi running Csound beside it and you have a custom eurorackable Csound system.
>> ========================
>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
>> Maynooth University
>> Ireland
>>
>> > On 24 Nov 2020, at 03:28, alexandre burton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > *Warning*
>> >
>> > This email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
>> >
>> > the ES-8 is designed to match 0dBfs to +10VDC, so yes “out .5” will provide +5V, and "out .707” will give out +7.07V. negative voltages are possible, so for conventional CV behavior the main concern would be to shift your LFOs to positive: “out 0.5+oscil(0.5, 2,1)”.
>> >
>> > and take note that standard interfaces may output suprinsingly hot signals. MOTU has a CV product called Volta and documents the DC output of their interfaces here: https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmotu.com%2Ftechsupport%2Ftechnotes%2Ftesting-analog-outputs-for-control-voltage-compatibility&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=U2SLQkZt8JpeoKYmz%2FW6%2FRZBcVzwVZrvymQJvgYqytI%3D&amp;reserved=0 (make sure to click the gray zones at the botttom to reveal the data). some interfaces go up to 9V. that page also explain a multimeter method to match the output to CV values that could be replicated in Csound.
>> >
>> > alex.
>> >
>> >> On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:20 PM, Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Regarding "out N", that's all I'd expect to be necessary from csound,
>> >> and I'm sure you could verify by writing to a file or using jack to
>> >> route directly to a DAW to examine the signal. In terms of scaling,
>> >> I'd be surprised by anything other than full-scale being translated
>> >> linearly to the cv range.
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 1:15 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks, Justin. I understand what you're saying, but the fact is that there is plenty of software that works out of the box with the ES-8 (and other DC-coupled interfaces) with any additional hardware, so perhaps the interfaces themselves handle the differences in voltage. What I am trying to understand is specifically how to tell Csound to emit a suitable DC signal.  If it's as simple as Mike suggests using "out N", then great. I guess I'd have to measure the output of the ES-8 (since I have one) given different output levels from Csound, so that I'd understand how the scaling works. I have both a standalone scope and a Eurorack scope, so it should be easy enough to figure out.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 3:25 PM Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It looks like the ES-8 is specifically a eurorack device, so it should
>> >>>> "just work" for your purpose as advertised
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Pardon if I'm stating the obvious, but normal devices with digital
>> >>>> input and analog output are going to have an amplifier of some sort on
>> >>>> the output. The settings on the device and/or the software mixer
>> >>>> controls will decide what that amplification factor is for both
>> >>>> voltage and amperage (and often the choice of output port will as
>> >>>> well, eg. dedicated line out vs. headphone out vs. balanced output).
>> >>>> If you don't have an oscilloscope you can borrow / use, a cheap
>> >>>> digital volt meter can show you DC voltages. Usually gains / levels
>> >>>> are shown in db factor of some reference level, but that does
>> >>>> translate to specific voltages.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The hottest standard line level for pro audio gear is only +/-1.2
>> >>>> volts, so without designated synth equipment I'd expect that you'd
>> >>>> need to do a gain stage on the modular side. I'd definitely double
>> >>>> check which "cv" standard the interface works with, because there are
>> >>>> multiple definitions. I'd expect a c/v amplifier that takes consumer
>> >>>> or pro level line signal (maybe with a handly switch), and then
>> >>>> amplifies it to +/-5v or 0-8v range would be a cheap / simple thing to
>> >>>> make (simple enough that you might prefer to make it an optional
>> >>>> plug-in on some other module).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 3:45 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thanks, Mike. I don't have a suitable interface yet to try this with, but this does make me think it should be possible. I'm not necessarily seeking to send pitch voltages (this would be very cool, but probably an additional challenge to get the output calibrated properly for really accurate pitch tracking), but I'd certainly want to be able to produce a +/-5V signal (10V peak to peak). I'm not sure I understand how to amplify the signal, unless the audio interface handles that -- software like Silent Way (which is a VST) and Reaktor require only a DC-coupled interface like the ES-8 I'm contemplating and no other special hardware.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> - Dave
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 11:31 PM Michael Gogins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Try just sending the control voltage out your DAC.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> out 1
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Should send a DC level of 1 normalized to the maximum signal amplitude of your DAC. That should equate to about .445 volts for the -10 dBV line level of semiprofessional audio gear. You would need an amplifier to get that up to the 1 V/octave range of modular synthesizer gear. Be careful not to go too high, control voltages don't exceed 9 or 10.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Best,
>> >>>>>> Mike
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 22:01 Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Hi all,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I'm intrigued by audio interfaces like the Expert Sleepers ES-8, which allow software to send CV as well as audio into a modular synth. Software like Silent Way, Max/MSP, Pd and others apparently know how to do this. But I don't understand how they're doing it.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> How would I do this with Csound, assuming I was using an ES-8 as my audio interface? That is, what kind of signal would I need to emit from Csound such that it would be interpreted as control voltage (DC)? It is possible?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> (I know it's possible to use a MIDI-to-CV device to do this -- I do this to send gate signals to my modular system --  but then one is stuck with MIDI resolution, which isn't ideal for applications such as LFOs.)
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> - Dave
>> >>>>>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=ai6HUfO13dsL8qi62FVJTwlsQKI7ArJyhspPx0bN1GI%3D&amp;reserved=0 Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=1ElQaOu%2BC6ElSywIOSan9HcLDQkIYzHWJfrq98lFPQo%3D&amp;reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >>>>>>
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>> >>>>>
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>> >>>>
>> >>>> Csound mailing list
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>> >>>> Send bugs reports to
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>> >>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >>>
>> >>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=HrFwcPZAeF1qYyi5s37T9xalDFhVRAFIvVz3ib%2FmCmM%3D&amp;reserved=0 Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=Q3q%2FNJm5e61oIUtvRFQNhpZSIhRXiyL8NsLpUPg%2BHJo%3D&amp;reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >>
>> >> Csound mailing list
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>> >> Send bugs reports to
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>> >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >
>> > Csound mailing list
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>> > Send bugs reports to
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>> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>>
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> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] Csound with DC-coupled audio interfaces

Dave Seidel
In reply to this post by Tetsuya Miwa
I am making a set of UDOs for CV, will make them available maybe later today after some testing.

On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 8:25 AM Tetsuya Miwa <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear Dave,

Thank you for sharing the report. This is definitely a good news for Cyber Monday. I need to buy ES-8/ES-9!

Tetsuya Miwa

> 2020/11/29 12:40、Dave Seidel <[hidden email]>のメール:
>
> I am happy to report that the Expert Sleepers ES-8 works very well with Csound -- for both audio and control voltage.
>
> For audio, I had to specify "--format=long" and get the channel count correct. The ES-8 has 16 output channels (8 usables ones if you're not using ADAT, which I'm now) and 8 input channels (4 usable ones without ADAT). I'm using it at 96k and it sounds great.
>
> For CV, I am seeing 0.1 output from Csound equal to 1 volt, so for example line(0, 1, 0.5) produces an upward ramp starting at 0v and ending at 5v. I appear to have a usable range of +/- 10v (20v P-P), so this is more than capable of the range needed for pitch voltages. You can also use negative values, thus bipolar CV.
>
> One crucial bit for CV is to use outch() (or whatever outxxx variation) with k-rate signals, not a-rate.
>
> I haven't tested this yet, but since the ES-8 has 4 input channels, I should be able to receive CV as well.
>
> This is a pretty amazing capability! My current setup is Csound on a Raspberry Pi 4 with an external USB audio interface (sending audio into the modular system) and an external MIDI-to-CV interface (sending gates to the modular). Now, I'll be able to eliminate both external interfaces and stop having to use MIDI just to send gate signals, plus I'll now be able to send arbitrary CV signals. Very exciting.
>
> - Dave
>
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 11:15 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thanks, Tetsuya, I will report on my experiences once I have the ES-8.
>
> - Dave
>
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 7:10 AM Tetsuya Miwa <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Dear Dave,
>
> This is a very interesting discussion because I’m thinking of buying ES-8/ES-9. My plan is to connect my modular synth to Csound on my PC.
> As Victor mentioned, ‘just audio-rate CV for everything’ is the way to go.
>
> Tetsuya Miwa
>
> > 2020/11/24 20:04、Dave Seidel <[hidden email]>のメール:
> >
> > That's possible, of course. The Qu-Bit Nebulae module has a Pi 3 embedded, though not usable for this purpose. However, I don't mind having the Pi in its own sturdy metal enclosure, because rack space is always at a premium. For me at least -- I have two 104 HP racks (one 7U, one 6U, each of which has a cover and can travel as carry-on luggage), and a 64 HP / 3U skiff, and I don't want to expand beyond that. For UI (when I need one), I run an Open Stage Control server on the Pi alongside Csound, using the Pi as a wifi hotspot, and use a tablet to display and operate the interface, giving me all the real time controls I need.
> >
> > Speaking of the skiff, I got this to house a WMD Performance Mixer, which I got very recently and is fantastic. I like to process audio in two or more parallel channels and then mix them together before they leave the rack, so this mixer is perfect.
> >
> > - Dave
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 5:43 AM Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Great.
> > Please give us a report when it arrives. I was thinking the Pi could be mounted behind an eurorack panel into the rack beside the ES-8.
> > I was thinking that this combination may give all the needed connectivity, without needing to use an extra arduino etc for digital controls. Just audio-rate CV for everything.
> >
> > Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> > Maynooth University
> > Ireland
> >
> >> On Nov 24, 2020, at 10:34 AM, Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> 
> >> Victor, excellent. I bought one last night, can't wait to get it and try it out.
> >>
> >> As you may know, I'm already running Csound on a headless RPi 4, a combination I'm very happy with, so this should be great. I'm currently using the Pi with a USB audio interface and a small MIDI-to-CV box (so I can send gates), both going to Eurorack, and it will be very cool to be able to use the ES-8 for both functions. When I can travel and perform again (I hope before 2022), this will be very good for portability.
> >>
> >> - Dave
> >>
> >> On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 3:59 AM Victor Lazzarini <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Looks like the ES-8 is the way to go. If it can match 0dbfs -> 10 V, and drop change in signal amplitude as a linear voltage, then it’s
> >> game on. All you need is a little RPi running Csound beside it and you have a custom eurorackable Csound system.
> >> ========================
> >> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> >> Maynooth University
> >> Ireland
> >>
> >> > On 24 Nov 2020, at 03:28, alexandre burton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > *Warning*
> >> >
> >> > This email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
> >> >
> >> > the ES-8 is designed to match 0dBfs to +10VDC, so yes “out .5” will provide +5V, and "out .707” will give out +7.07V. negative voltages are possible, so for conventional CV behavior the main concern would be to shift your LFOs to positive: “out 0.5+oscil(0.5, 2,1)”.
> >> >
> >> > and take note that standard interfaces may output suprinsingly hot signals. MOTU has a CV product called Volta and documents the DC output of their interfaces here: https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmotu.com%2Ftechsupport%2Ftechnotes%2Ftesting-analog-outputs-for-control-voltage-compatibility&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=U2SLQkZt8JpeoKYmz%2FW6%2FRZBcVzwVZrvymQJvgYqytI%3D&amp;reserved=0 (make sure to click the gray zones at the botttom to reveal the data). some interfaces go up to 9V. that page also explain a multimeter method to match the output to CV values that could be replicated in Csound.
> >> >
> >> > alex.
> >> >
> >> >> On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:20 PM, Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Regarding "out N", that's all I'd expect to be necessary from csound,
> >> >> and I'm sure you could verify by writing to a file or using jack to
> >> >> route directly to a DAW to examine the signal. In terms of scaling,
> >> >> I'd be surprised by anything other than full-scale being translated
> >> >> linearly to the cv range.
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 1:15 PM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks, Justin. I understand what you're saying, but the fact is that there is plenty of software that works out of the box with the ES-8 (and other DC-coupled interfaces) with any additional hardware, so perhaps the interfaces themselves handle the differences in voltage. What I am trying to understand is specifically how to tell Csound to emit a suitable DC signal.  If it's as simple as Mike suggests using "out N", then great. I guess I'd have to measure the output of the ES-8 (since I have one) given different output levels from Csound, so that I'd understand how the scaling works. I have both a standalone scope and a Eurorack scope, so it should be easy enough to figure out.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 3:25 PM Justin Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> It looks like the ES-8 is specifically a eurorack device, so it should
> >> >>>> "just work" for your purpose as advertised
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Pardon if I'm stating the obvious, but normal devices with digital
> >> >>>> input and analog output are going to have an amplifier of some sort on
> >> >>>> the output. The settings on the device and/or the software mixer
> >> >>>> controls will decide what that amplification factor is for both
> >> >>>> voltage and amperage (and often the choice of output port will as
> >> >>>> well, eg. dedicated line out vs. headphone out vs. balanced output).
> >> >>>> If you don't have an oscilloscope you can borrow / use, a cheap
> >> >>>> digital volt meter can show you DC voltages. Usually gains / levels
> >> >>>> are shown in db factor of some reference level, but that does
> >> >>>> translate to specific voltages.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> The hottest standard line level for pro audio gear is only +/-1.2
> >> >>>> volts, so without designated synth equipment I'd expect that you'd
> >> >>>> need to do a gain stage on the modular side. I'd definitely double
> >> >>>> check which "cv" standard the interface works with, because there are
> >> >>>> multiple definitions. I'd expect a c/v amplifier that takes consumer
> >> >>>> or pro level line signal (maybe with a handly switch), and then
> >> >>>> amplifies it to +/-5v or 0-8v range would be a cheap / simple thing to
> >> >>>> make (simple enough that you might prefer to make it an optional
> >> >>>> plug-in on some other module).
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 3:45 AM Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Thanks, Mike. I don't have a suitable interface yet to try this with, but this does make me think it should be possible. I'm not necessarily seeking to send pitch voltages (this would be very cool, but probably an additional challenge to get the output calibrated properly for really accurate pitch tracking), but I'd certainly want to be able to produce a +/-5V signal (10V peak to peak). I'm not sure I understand how to amplify the signal, unless the audio interface handles that -- software like Silent Way (which is a VST) and Reaktor require only a DC-coupled interface like the ES-8 I'm contemplating and no other special hardware.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> - Dave
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 11:31 PM Michael Gogins <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Try just sending the control voltage out your DAC.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> out 1
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Should send a DC level of 1 normalized to the maximum signal amplitude of your DAC. That should equate to about .445 volts for the -10 dBV line level of semiprofessional audio gear. You would need an amplifier to get that up to the 1 V/octave range of modular synthesizer gear. Be careful not to go too high, control voltages don't exceed 9 or 10.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Best,
> >> >>>>>> Mike
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 22:01 Dave Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Hi all,
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> I'm intrigued by audio interfaces like the Expert Sleepers ES-8, which allow software to send CV as well as audio into a modular synth. Software like Silent Way, Max/MSP, Pd and others apparently know how to do this. But I don't understand how they're doing it.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> How would I do this with Csound, assuming I was using an ES-8 as my audio interface? That is, what kind of signal would I need to emit from Csound such that it would be interpreted as control voltage (DC)? It is possible?
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> (I know it's possible to use a MIDI-to-CV device to do this -- I do this to send gate signals to my modular system --  but then one is stuck with MIDI resolution, which isn't ideal for applications such as LFOs.)
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> - Dave
> >> >>>>>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=ai6HUfO13dsL8qi62FVJTwlsQKI7ArJyhspPx0bN1GI%3D&amp;reserved=0 Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=1ElQaOu%2BC6ElSywIOSan9HcLDQkIYzHWJfrq98lFPQo%3D&amp;reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=ai6HUfO13dsL8qi62FVJTwlsQKI7ArJyhspPx0bN1GI%3D&amp;reserved=0 Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=1ElQaOu%2BC6ElSywIOSan9HcLDQkIYzHWJfrq98lFPQo%3D&amp;reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=ai6HUfO13dsL8qi62FVJTwlsQKI7ArJyhspPx0bN1GI%3D&amp;reserved=0 Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375782565%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=1ElQaOu%2BC6ElSywIOSan9HcLDQkIYzHWJfrq98lFPQo%3D&amp;reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Csound mailing list
> >> >>>> [hidden email]
> >> >>>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=HrFwcPZAeF1qYyi5s37T9xalDFhVRAFIvVz3ib%2FmCmM%3D&amp;reserved=0
> >> >>>> Send bugs reports to
> >> >>>>       https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=Q3q%2FNJm5e61oIUtvRFQNhpZSIhRXiyL8NsLpUPg%2BHJo%3D&amp;reserved=0
> >> >>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=HrFwcPZAeF1qYyi5s37T9xalDFhVRAFIvVz3ib%2FmCmM%3D&amp;reserved=0 Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=Q3q%2FNJm5e61oIUtvRFQNhpZSIhRXiyL8NsLpUPg%2BHJo%3D&amp;reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >> >>
> >> >> Csound mailing list
> >> >> [hidden email]
> >> >> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=HrFwcPZAeF1qYyi5s37T9xalDFhVRAFIvVz3ib%2FmCmM%3D&amp;reserved=0
> >> >> Send bugs reports to
> >> >>       https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=Q3q%2FNJm5e61oIUtvRFQNhpZSIhRXiyL8NsLpUPg%2BHJo%3D&amp;reserved=0
> >> >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >> >
> >> > Csound mailing list
> >> > [hidden email]
> >> > https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=HrFwcPZAeF1qYyi5s37T9xalDFhVRAFIvVz3ib%2FmCmM%3D&amp;reserved=0
> >> > Send bugs reports to
> >> >        https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&amp;data=04%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C8e9c45061ee543a47ad708d89029122a%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C1%7C0%7C637417853375792557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=Q3q%2FNJm5e61oIUtvRFQNhpZSIhRXiyL8NsLpUPg%2BHJo%3D&amp;reserved=0
> >> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >>
> >>
> >> Csound mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >> Send bugs reports to
> >>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> > Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> > Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
[hidden email]
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Csound mailing list [hidden email] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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