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[Csnd] Csound 5 status (was Re: [Csnd] linux version of csound 5)

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Istvan Varga

[Csnd] Csound 5 status (was Re: [Csnd] linux version of csound 5)

[hidden email] wrote:

> When Csound5 is released there will be binaries and installers.

Speaking of which, it would be useful to have a detailed list of things
left to do before Csound 5 is released. I am particularly interested in
changes related to the API. This should be reviewed and discussed; does
anyone have suggestions ?
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john ffitch

Re: [Csnd] Csound 5 status (was Re: [Csnd] linux version of csound 5)

I tried to ask that self-same question some month or so ago. What is
needed to get to a sensible milestone?

Last time I tried the audio on OSX just did not work, but the
impression i have is that the linux system is almost finished. I have
not managed to run Csound5 on Windows as i cannot get mingw to behave
reasonably.

Questions to which i would like the answer include:
Does OSC run on Windows?
If we do not replace the parser is anyone going to fix the
main lexing bugs?
Do we have sufficient sane installers? We (the company)
sell software on Linux for multiple distributions, and while
a pain it is doable -- we compile multiple .o files and
install includes linking.
I expect others will occur to me soon.
==John ffitch
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john ffitch

Csound 5 status

In reply to this post by Istvan Varga

More Questions:

Are all opcodes documented?

Is Cs5 reentrant?

How far is that gap between Cs5 and CsoundAV?

Has all matt's stuff been incorporated?

Is looping working in aiff and wav files

Are all the utilities converted?

==John ffitch

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Istvan Varga

Re: Csound 5 status

[hidden email] wrote:

> Are all opcodes documented?

I have posted a list of undocumented opcodes some time ago, although
there was not much response. Some of these are CsoundAV opcodes that
have documentation in the CsoundAV package.

> Is Cs5 reentrant?

The core parts (that is, files in Engine, and those in InOut, OOps,
and Top that are part of the engine) generally are (I am aware of a
few statics in Mac specific code in Top/dl_opcodes.c that may be a
problem). The API functions all take an instance pointer wherever
needed, or can find it out from other data passed, like OPDS.
Some older opcodes - examples include soundfonts and lpc/adsyn -
and rarely used features such as cscore and scot may have problems
in this area, though.

> How far is that gap between Cs5 and CsoundAV?
> Has all matt's stuff been incorporated?

Not sure about these, not least because there is not really any
cooperation from the authors, and the source code of the latest
versions of CsoundAV and MacCsound may not even be available
(which is nasty given that canonical Csound is LGPL'd).

> Is looping working in aiff and wav files

No, because it is not (yet) correctly implemented in libsndfile.
Once libsndfile does have full support for loop points and other
sample information, it can be easily added to GEN01.

> Are all the utilities converted?

The following are not converted yet and probably do not work:

mixer
pv_export
pv_import

These utilities, while not converted to plugins, seem to work
as stand-alone command line programs:

cs
csb64enc
makecsd
scsort
extract (from score, not sound file)

I am uncertain about these:

cscore
mkgraph
scot

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Istvan Varga

Re: Re: [Csnd] Csound 5 status (was Re: [Csnd] linux version of csound 5)

In reply to this post by john ffitch

[hidden email] wrote:

> I tried to ask that self-same question some month or so ago. What is
> needed to get to a sensible milestone?

As I already mentioned, one important issue is getting the API
finished enough that there is a stable interface for hosts and
plugins (of course, backward compatible extensions can be added
later); I am very interested in opinions on this by people like
Michael Gogins or Matt Ingalls, but so far I did not get much
response. Other than that, we need to get a reasonably stable
and working package - it does not need to be perfect, but should
be good enough so that the overall quality is not worse than
that of Csound 4.

> Last time I tried the audio on OSX just did not work, but the

Did you try both the latest PortAudio driver, and Victor Lazzarini's
rtcoreaudio.c ?

> impression i have is that the linux system is almost finished.

So, what should be done to get it not just almost, but really finished ?

> I have not managed to run Csound5 on Windows as i cannot get mingw
> to behave reasonably.

I have compiled for Windows, and was able to get working und usable
real time audio (using native MME interface, as well as DirectSound
and ASIO through PortAudio; full-duplex audio works too) and MIDI.
FLTK widgets are generally OK,

> Questions to which i would like the answer include:
> Does OSC run on Windows?

Not tested, but this is mainly a function of getting liblo compile
and work on Windows.

> If we do not replace the parser is anyone going to fix the
> main lexing bugs?

I may try fixing some, but what bugs are there that should be fixed
now ? Which one is the most serious ?

> Do we have sufficient sane installers? We (the company)
> sell software on Linux for multiple distributions, and while
> a pain it is doable -- we compile multiple .o files and
> install includes linking.

There is a Windows installer by Michael Gogins. For now, the standard
way of installing Csound 5 on Linux is compiling from sources, but I am
interested in ideas about how precompiled Linux packages should be made.
No info on OS X, but the main problem here is that there are no Csound 5
contributions from Mac developers like Matt Ingalls, which is really a shame.

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Steven Yi

Re: Re: [Csnd] Csound 5 status (was Re: [Csnd] linux version of csound 5)

Hi All,

This thread is very import but I have only time to comment on this for
the moment and would like to comment more later:

> There is a Windows installer by Michael Gogins. For now, the standard
> way of installing Csound 5 on Linux is compiling from sources, but I am
> interested in ideas about how precompiled Linux packages should be made.
> No info on OS X, but the main problem here is that there are no Csound 5
> contributions from Mac developers like Matt Ingalls, which is really a shame.

For precompiled Linux Packages, this can be very difficult as there
are so many OS's out there. I think that it would also depend on if
we package in libraries by have dynamically linked, or statically
compile, as this would determine if we need to be careful not to
overwrite another installed version of a library (i.e. if libsndfile
is installed from Planet-CCRMA), and if we should use dependencies on
common repositories, such as Planet-CCRMA for those on Fedora Core
systems. I'm sure the dependencies issue is equivalent for SuSE and
other distributions.

So, that leads to what kinds of binaries need to be released. An RPM
would be great, and if it has no external dependencies, could possibly
work across distributions for Fedora, Mandriva, and SuSE. Not sure
how likely that is though, but is a possibility. Maybe a SRC RPM
could be made and those of us on different platforms can compile to
binary RPM and push to the server.

Not sure what would be required for Gentoo or Slackware, as I've never
used them.

For RPM's, there is a spec.in in the Csound4 CVS in the csound
directory that John Ramsdell put together that could be reused for
Csound5.

The trickiest dependency I can see is FLTK and may need to be done
statically as most distributions don't have enable-threads on as far
as I know.

I've used Linux for a number of years now but am no expert on
packaging, so any other thoughts (Dave? Iain?) on Linux packages would
be great to hear.

steven

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Michael Gogins

Re: Csound 5 status

In reply to this post by john ffitch

Csound 5 does now appear to be re-entrant, at least in CsoundVST. This may not be a complete test since this does not involve Csound's audio or MIDI plugins (the VST host handles that). But the "engine" and the lower half of the MIDI input driver do appear to be re-entrant now.

And this is a great step forward. It makes the whole thing much more modular/extensible.

Regards,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
Sent: Jul 28, 2005 7:48 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Cs-dev] Csound 5 status

More Questions:

Are all opcodes documented?

Is Cs5 reentrant?

How far is that gap between Cs5 and CsoundAV?

Has all matt's stuff been incorporated?

Is looping working in aiff and wav files

Are all the utilities converted?

==John ffitch

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Michael Gogins

Re: Re: [Csnd] Csound 5 status (was Re: [Csnd] linux version of csound 5)

In reply to this post by Istvan Varga

I have been loaned a PowerMac and am working on a port of CsoundVST to Jaguar (Mac OS X 10.3), since some people have expressed interest in using CsoundVST on the Mac. No idea how easy this is -- I'm still trying to get a usable version of FLTK going, so I'm still working my way through installing usable versions of the pre-requisites. Since VST plugins are common on the Mac, presumably once I have the pre-requisites, it will not be hard. However, my plans are not really oriented towards more than just getting CsoundVST to work.

Regards,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Istvan Varga <[hidden email]>
Sent: Jul 28, 2005 8:49 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Re: [Csnd] Csound 5 status (was Re: [Csnd] linux version of csound 5)

[hidden email] wrote:

> I tried to ask that self-same question some month or so ago. What is
> needed to get to a sensible milestone?

As I already mentioned, one important issue is getting the API
finished enough that there is a stable interface for hosts and
plugins (of course, backward compatible extensions can be added
later); I am very interested in opinions on this by people like
Michael Gogins or Matt Ingalls, but so far I did not get much
response. Other than that, we need to get a reasonably stable
and working package - it does not need to be perfect, but should
be good enough so that the overall quality is not worse than
that of Csound 4.

> Last time I tried the audio on OSX just did not work, but the

Did you try both the latest PortAudio driver, and Victor Lazzarini's
rtcoreaudio.c ?

> impression i have is that the linux system is almost finished.

So, what should be done to get it not just almost, but really finished ?

> I have not managed to run Csound5 on Windows as i cannot get mingw
> to behave reasonably.

I have compiled for Windows, and was able to get working und usable
real time audio (using native MME interface, as well as DirectSound
and ASIO through PortAudio; full-duplex audio works too) and MIDI.
FLTK widgets are generally OK,

> Questions to which i would like the answer include:
> Does OSC run on Windows?

Not tested, but this is mainly a function of getting liblo compile
and work on Windows.

> If we do not replace the parser is anyone going to fix the
> main lexing bugs?

I may try fixing some, but what bugs are there that should be fixed
now ? Which one is the most serious ?

> Do we have sufficient sane installers? We (the company)
> sell software on Linux for multiple distributions, and while
> a pain it is doable -- we compile multiple .o files and
> install includes linking.

There is a Windows installer by Michael Gogins. For now, the standard
way of installing Csound 5 on Linux is compiling from sources, but I am
interested in ideas about how precompiled Linux packages should be made.
No info on OS X, but the main problem here is that there are no Csound 5
contributions from Mac developers like Matt Ingalls, which is really a shame.

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john ffitch

Re: Re: [Csnd] Csound 5 status (was Re: [Csnd] linux version of csound 5)

In reply to this post by Istvan Varga

Partial answers -- will consider the others

>>>>> "Istvan" == Istvan Varga <[hidden email]> writes:

>> Questions to which i would like the answer include:
>> Does OSC run on Windows?

Istvan> Not tested, but this is mainly a function of getting liblo compile
Istvan> and work on Windows.

liblo is compiled for Windows and the library is in the CVS (remember
Viktor complained about it). What i want is someone to attempt to use
it!

>> If we do not replace the parser is anyone going to fix the
>> main lexing bugs?

Istvan> I may try fixing some, but what bugs are there that should be fixed
Istvan> now ? Which one is the most serious ?

Inadvertent spaces have caused the most problems to my mind. And
incomprehensible error messages

==John ffitch

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Iain Duncan

Re: Re: [Csnd] Csound 5 status (was Re: [Csnd] linux version of csound 5)

In reply to this post by Steven Yi

> So, that leads to what kinds of binaries need to be released. An RPM
> would be great, and if it has no external dependencies, could possibly
> work across distributions for Fedora, Mandriva, and SuSE. Not sure
> how likely that is though, but is a possibility. Maybe a SRC RPM
> could be made and those of us on different platforms can compile to
> binary RPM and push to the server.
>
> Not sure what would be required for Gentoo or Slackware, as I've never
> used them.

For Gentoo it's an ebuild. I could look into that, but it may be well
over my head. I will also be helping get it incorporated in the
Pure:Dyne live CD.

> I've used Linux for a number of years now but am no expert on
> packaging, so any other thoughts (Dave? Iain?) on Linux packages would
> be great to hear.

Whoa, I am no expert on anything linux ( except maybe installing Gentoo
'cause I keep screwing up my machine, ha ha ). But sure, I'll look into
the ebuild department.

Iain

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Iain Duncan

Re: Re: [Csnd] Csound 5 status (was Re: [Csnd] linux version of csound 5)

In reply to this post by john ffitch

> liblo is compiled for Windows and the library is in the CVS (remember
> Viktor complained about it). What i want is someone to attempt to use
> it!

If someone can tell me how or what I should try, I can try this at work,
or Glyn and I can try it on his dual boot.

Iain

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Iain Duncan

Re: Csound 5 status

In reply to this post by Michael Gogins

This is something I'm interested in. I'd be happy to help test that too,
can anyone tell me what I need to do to make sure it worked on both
windoze and linux?

Iain

Michael Gogins wrote:

> Csound 5 does now appear to be re-entrant, at least in CsoundVST. This may not be a complete test since this does not involve Csound's audio or MIDI plugins (the VST host handles that). But the "engine" and the lower half of the MIDI input driver do appear to be re-entrant now.
>
> And this is a great step forward. It makes the whole thing much more modular/extensible.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> Sent: Jul 28, 2005 7:48 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Cs-dev] Csound 5 status
>
> More Questions:
>
> Are all opcodes documented?
>
> Is Cs5 reentrant?
>
> How far is that gap between Cs5 and CsoundAV?
>
> Has all matt's stuff been incorporated?
>
> Is looping working in aiff and wav files
>
> Are all the utilities converted?
>
> ==John ffitch
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & EXPO September
> 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices
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> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
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> 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices
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> _______________________________________________
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>

Michael Gogins

Re: Csound 5 status

In reply to this post by john ffitch

Write a multi-threaded app that creates about 5 instances of Csound and renders 5 different orc/scos, one in each thread. Two should have FLTK guis, one should have RT audio, one gets MIDI input, two should write to soundfile (each to a different soundfile), etc. If everything renders OK things are looking good.

Regards,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Iain Duncan <[hidden email]>
Sent: Jul 28, 2005 1:01 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Csound 5 status

This is something I'm interested in. I'd be happy to help test that too,
can anyone tell me what I need to do to make sure it worked on both
windoze and linux?

Iain

Michael Gogins wrote:

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Istvan Varga

Re: Csound 5 status

Michael Gogins wrote:

> Write a multi-threaded app that creates about 5 instances of
> Csound and renders 5 different orc/scos, one in each thread.
> Two should have FLTK guis, one should have RT audio, one gets
> MIDI input, two should write to soundfile (each to a different
> soundfile), etc.

These should be OK with the probable exception of running multiple
FLTK GUIs. You may, however, possibly use RT audio and MIDI in
multiple instances (and if not, that is most likely a problem with
PortAudio/PortMidi).

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Iain Duncan

Re: Csound 5 status

In reply to this post by Michael Gogins

> Write a multi-threaded app that creates about 5 instances of Csound and
> renders 5 different orc/scos, one in each thread. Two should have FLTK guis,
> one should have RT audio, one gets MIDI input, two should write to soundfile
> (each to a different soundfile), etc. If everything renders OK things are
> looking good.

You know that should actually fit in with a bit of a self teaching project I am
doing right now so I will try to hit all the above. It may take a while though,
as I am pretty new to multi-threading. I am using the pthreads library on linux
and windows. Will that be sufficient?

Iain

> Regards,
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Iain Duncan <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Jul 28, 2005 1:01 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Csound 5 status
>
> This is something I'm interested in. I'd be happy to help test that too,
> can anyone tell me what I need to do to make sure it worked on both
> windoze and linux?
>
> Iain
>
> Michael Gogins wrote:
> > Csound 5 does now appear to be re-entrant, at least in CsoundVST. This may
> not be a complete test since this does not involve Csound's audio or MIDI
> plugins (the VST host handles that). But the "engine" and the lower half of
> the MIDI input driver do appear to be re-entrant now.
> >
> > And this is a great step forward. It makes the whole thing much more
> modular/extensible.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mike
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [hidden email]
> > Sent: Jul 28, 2005 7:48 AM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: [Cs-dev] Csound 5 status
> >
> > More Questions:
> >
> > Are all opcodes documented?
> >
> > Is Cs5 reentrant?
> >
> > How far is that gap between Cs5 and CsoundAV?
> >
> > Has all matt's stuff been incorporated?
> >
> > Is looping working in aiff and wav files
> >
> > Are all the utilities converted?
> >
> > ==John ffitch
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & EXPO
> September
> > 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices
> > Agile & Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects & Teams * Testing & QA
> > Security * Process Improvement & Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf
> > _______________________________________________
> > Csound-devel mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & EXPO
> September
> > 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices
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> > _______________________________________________
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> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> >
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
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Michael Gogins

Re: Csound 5 status

In reply to this post by john ffitch

Yes. You will create threads each with its own thread routine, then your main() function will join these threads (wait for them all to complete) before exiting.

Regards,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
Sent: Jul 28, 2005 3:23 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Csound 5 status

> Write a multi-threaded app that creates about 5 instances of Csound and
> renders 5 different orc/scos, one in each thread. Two should have FLTK guis,
> one should have RT audio, one gets MIDI input, two should write to soundfile
> (each to a different soundfile), etc. If everything renders OK things are
> looking good.

You know that should actually fit in with a bit of a self teaching project I am
doing right now so I will try to hit all the above. It may take a while though,
as I am pretty new to multi-threading. I am using the pthreads library on linux
and windows. Will that be sufficient?

Iain

Andres Cabrera-3

Re: Re: [Csnd] Csound 5 status (was Re: [Csnd] linux version of csound 5)

In reply to this post by Michael Gogins

It would be cool if you look into the vsthost opcodes as well. I tried
building them once, but the compiler complained (said something like
there was a bug in the compiler).

Cheers,
Andres
On Thu, 2005-07-28 at 08:53, Michael Gogins wrote:

> I have been loaned a PowerMac and am working on a port of CsoundVST to Jaguar (Mac OS X 10.3), since some people have expressed interest in using CsoundVST on the Mac. No idea how easy this is -- I'm still trying to get a usable version of FLTK going, so I'm still working my way through installing usable versions of the pre-requisites. Since VST plugins are common on the Mac, presumably once I have the pre-requisites, it will not be hard. However, my plans are not really oriented towards more than just getting CsoundVST to work.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Istvan Varga <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Jul 28, 2005 8:49 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Re: [Csnd] Csound 5 status (was Re: [Csnd] linux version of csound 5)
>
> [hidden email] wrote:
>
> > I tried to ask that self-same question some month or so ago. What is
> > needed to get to a sensible milestone?
>
> As I already mentioned, one important issue is getting the API
> finished enough that there is a stable interface for hosts and
> plugins (of course, backward compatible extensions can be added
> later); I am very interested in opinions on this by people like
> Michael Gogins or Matt Ingalls, but so far I did not get much
> response. Other than that, we need to get a reasonably stable
> and working package - it does not need to be perfect, but should
> be good enough so that the overall quality is not worse than
> that of Csound 4.
>
> > Last time I tried the audio on OSX just did not work, but the
>
> Did you try both the latest PortAudio driver, and Victor Lazzarini's
> rtcoreaudio.c ?
>
> > impression i have is that the linux system is almost finished.
>
> So, what should be done to get it not just almost, but really finished ?
>
> > I have not managed to run Csound5 on Windows as i cannot get mingw
> > to behave reasonably.
>
> I have compiled for Windows, and was able to get working und usable
> real time audio (using native MME interface, as well as DirectSound
> and ASIO through PortAudio; full-duplex audio works too) and MIDI.
> FLTK widgets are generally OK,
>
> > Questions to which i would like the answer include:
> > Does OSC run on Windows?
>
> Not tested, but this is mainly a function of getting liblo compile
> and work on Windows.
>
> > If we do not replace the parser is anyone going to fix the
> > main lexing bugs?
>
> I may try fixing some, but what bugs are there that should be fixed
> now ? Which one is the most serious ?
>
> > Do we have sufficient sane installers? We (the company)
> > sell software on Linux for multiple distributions, and while
> > a pain it is doable -- we compile multiple .o files and
> > install includes linking.
>
> There is a Windows installer by Michael Gogins. For now, the standard
> way of installing Csound 5 on Linux is compiling from sources, but I am
> interested in ideas about how precompiled Linux packages should be made.
> No info on OS X, but the main problem here is that there are no Csound 5
> contributions from Mac developers like Matt Ingalls, which is really a shame.
>
>
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